Peter Is Not The Rock!

[LittleLambofJesus]

Judas was surnamed. James and John were also surnamed (by Jesus.) Cephas was surnamed. Levi is not the same name as Matthew or Matthi, Saul was surnamed, Barsabus was surnamed, Joses was surnamed, another Judas was surnamed etc etc etc...

None of these so named was for the reason of PREemminance.

You mean such as these guys being out of the Devil?

John 8:44 `Ye out of a father, the Devil, are, and the desires/epiqumiaV <1939> of the father of ye, ye are willing to be doing.
That one a man-killer was from beginning and in the truth not has stood, that not is truth in him.
Whenever he may be talking, the falsehood out of the own/P he is talking, that a falsifier he is and the father of it.

Hebrews 2:14 Therefore then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, and He in like manner did partake to the same, that thru the Death He might take-away the one having the power of the Death--that is, the Devil

 

[squint]

You mean such as these guys being out of the Devil?

John 8:44 `Ye out of a father, the Devil, are, and the desires/epiqumiaV <1939> of the father of ye, ye are willing to be doing.
That one a man-killer was from beginning and in the truth not has stood, that not is truth in him.
Whenever he may be talking, the falsehood out of the own/P he is talking, that a falsifier he is and the father of it.

Hebrews 2:14 Therefore then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, and He in like manner did partake to the same, that thru the Death He might take-away the one having the power of the Death--that is, the Devil

What any of us produce is going to be what Jesus showed IN those men. you know how I read that and that I believe it is very clear that CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL were IN those men and Jesus openly spoke to them and REVILED those DEVIL CHILDREN in those men.

Gen. 3:
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee

This produce will NOT be avoided by any man in whom the thorns and thistles ARE, that is IN THEIR GROUND, their BODY.

Peter had a GREAT THORN when Satan spoke through his mouth.

Paul had 'evil present' with him when he desired to do good, and even A SPECIAL THORN, a MESSENGER OF SATAN whom God Himself placed upon him.

John The Apostle openly admitted that he HAD SIN and HAD SINNED and those who 'do so' are OF THE DEVIL.

So yes, unfortunately or fortunately FOR OUR SAKES the 'ground of our bodies' does indeed produce THORNS AND THISTLES. The Tare grows in the SAME GROUND as the WHEAT. The children of the flesh, the children of the DEVIL are in the same ground as THE VESSEL OF HONOR.

These facts are unavoidable to any who are IN TRUTH and these DO come forth for viewing for those who see through the LIGHT of His Words.

enjoy!

squint

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

What any of us produce is going to be what Jesus showed IN those men. you know how I read that and that I believe it is very clear that CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL were IN those men and Jesus openly spoke to them and REVILED those DEVIL CHILDREN in those men.

Greetings squint. But if you try to explain that to the Orthodox Jews today, they will tend to get a little "defensive". After all, 12 of their Tribes are mentioned in revelation.
All symbolic of course, but the Carnal cannot grasp the Spiritual.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Look, Jack, I put up the quotes and the names are bolded in the quotes. Peter was obviously not the only one surnamed by Jesus, OK? If you cannot read it what do you expect me to say about that? Perhaps you have been blinded by PETER? ...


Judas was surnamed. James and John were also surnamed (by Jesus.) Cephas was surnamed. Levi is not the same name as Matthew or Matthi, Saul was surnamed, Barsabus was surnamed, Joses was surnamed, another Judas was surnamed etc etc etc...

None of these so named was for the reason of PREemminance.

Eph. 1:
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church


Eph. 3:
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man



I claim? I can certainly read that Levi and Matthew are not the same names. Is that then 'my claim' or the claim that sets itself in front of my eyes?

enjoy!

squint

This is all very entertaining but you have not posted even one other Apostles that was named by Jesus. We all see that you have a great imagination and can see things that are not written. I do not want your imagined meanings but something written where Jesus has named another a different name like Simon/Peter. I do not think such a thing exists and that you are trying to get us to believe something imagined.

Example of Jesus naming someone:

17 And Jesus answering said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

and Latin:
17 Respondens autem Jesus, dixit ei: Beatus es Simon Bar Jona: quia caro et sanguis non revelavit tibi, sed Pater meus, qui in cælis est. 18 Et ego dico tibi, quia tu es Petrus, et super hanc petram ædificabo Ecclesiam meam, et portæ inferi non prævalebunt adversus eam.


And please stop acting like you have shown that Jesus named the others with a like name. The fact is that you have not shown that in the least. If anything you have shown us that Jews commonly had a Greek name and Hebrew name and that people with same names like Judas were given additional info when spoken about so the listener could distinguish who was being talked about. Now "put up or shut up."

 

[squint]

Greetings squint. But if you try to explain that to the Orthodox Jews today, they will tend to get a little "defensive". After all, 12 of their Tribes are mentioned in revelation.
All symbolic of course, but the Carnal cannot grasp the Spiritual.

You know for a certain FACT that ALL MEN will be offended by this FACT.

It may seem to me that the RCC would OBSERVE that SATAN spoke THROUGH Peter! They do not however BLAME SATAN for that working, they themselves BLAME PETER for not being able to STOP that from transpiring. Peter could no more STOP that from happening than Peter could suspend the laws of gravity. Where the Word is SOWN Satan comes! That's all there is TO IT.

And Jesus Himself DID NOT STOP that from happening. In fact it was BECAUSE of Jesus, the WORD with them that THE RESISTORS in those men CAME FORTH!


We too may be offended by the FACTS, but the FACTS will not be changing until the RESISTANCE is put away by Jesus Himself.

Matthew 15:
12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.

Matthew 11:
6 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

enjoy!

squint

 

[JacktheCatholic]

"Get behind me Satan"

Kind of a neat way of saying to stop thinking like men and think like God. Peter did not understand that Jesus needed to suffer and die. But in those times many could not see that if not all. Funny how hindsight is 20/20. Just saying that we have the benefit of knowing why.

 

[squint]

This is all very entertaining but you have not posted even one other Apostles that was named by Jesus.

I don't have to prove anything. The fact that John and James were ALSO surnamed is right there in Matt. 10. But for some reason you can't quite seem to see it? go figure.

We all see that you have a great imagination and can see things that are not written.

It's even more entertaining to put the scriptures right in front of your eyes and YOU can't even see it...heh heh heh. Very entertaining.

And then 'blame and accuse' MY IMAGINATION? heh heh heh. So predictable that is....

And please stop acting like you have shown that Jesus named the others with a like name.

WHO SAID the OTHER NAMES were A LIKE NAME???!!! Where did I make THAT claim????

Sorry, don't really know what's in yer head parading about AS ME.

The fact is that you have not shown that in the least. If anything you have shown us that Jews commonly had a Greek name and Hebrew name and that people with same names like Judas were given additional info when spoken about so the listener could distinguish who was being talked about. Now "put up or shut up."

Put up or shut up? How about you just read what's in front of you and STOP blaming and accusing ME for Jesus NAMING James and John by ANOTHER NAME?

James and John were NAMED BY JESUS as 'sons of THUNDER' which means when digging...sons of HOUSE SHAKING AND DIVIDING....and RUMBLING.

I like THEIR NAMES a WHOLE LOT BETTER and for specific reasons.

Upon THIS ROCK, Jesus...those who build will NOT be shaken no matter how fierce the storm. Let the waters rage. Let the wind blow the SAND...every man who builds ON SAND will assuredly wash away.

Look around you at all those nice little buildings your organization and ALL OTHERS have.

They will NOT STAND. They may be REplaced some day, but THEY WILL NOT STAND.

Their DOCTRINES who CONDEMN MANKIND will not stand either.

Men will LIVE by EVERY WORD of God.

enjoy!

squint

 

[squint]

"Get behind me Satan"

Kind of a neat way of saying to stop thinking like men and think like God. Peter did not understand that Jesus needed to suffer and die. But in those times many could not see that if not all. Funny how hindsight is 20/20. Just saying that we have the benefit of knowing why.

Jesus addressed SATAN in Peter and you are STILL led to blame PETER and MEN just like the balance of your 'organization.' go figure

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Sons of Thunder? Really.

You know the name "Smith" could be interpreted as "Black smith".

So if someone said Jack the son of the blacksmith that could be my new surname?

Please study Matthew 10 (where I think you got this sons of thunder). Maybe ask LLoJ to review the old scripture and translate and give his opinion. I do not know what LLoJ will say but I suspect he will agree that this line is referring to these men as being the son of someone so as to distinguish them from others with the same first name.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Jesus addressed SATAN in Peter and you are STILL led to blame PETER and MEN just like the balance of your 'organization.' go figure

You seem to be getting upset. Maybe we should stop until you cool off a little?

 

[squint]

You seem to be getting upset. Maybe we should stop until you cool off a little?

Ah, well Jack. You have provided a little daily predictability. Trying to claim upset on me when I'm really just laughing is also predictable.

Thunder brothers...ya gotta love 'em!

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Ah, well Jack. You have provided a little daily predictability. Trying to claim upset on me when I'm really just laughing is also predictable.

Thunder brothers...ya gotta love 'em!

I am glad you are not upset.

It is just better to stop when someone gets upset because the conversation gets crazy.

Maybe LLoJ will step in and give us his opinion on Matthew 10:3.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I am glad you are not upset.

It is just better to stop when someone gets upset because the conversation gets crazy.

Maybe LLoJ will step in and give us his opinion on Matthew 10:3.

Greetings. I have so many study folders opened they collasped How do the RCs view the 7 thunders in Revelation?
It is a rather obscure verse of which someone had a study on the Christian Scriptures board. Will have to hunt it up.

Mark 3:17 And James of the Zebedee and John the brother of the James and he places onto them names Boaneres which is sons of thunder/bronthV <1027>.

Reve 10:4 and when speak the seven thunders, I was about to be writing, and I hear a Voice out of the heaven saying, "Seal thou! which-things speak the seven thunders/brontai <1027> and no them thou should be writing.

Mark 3:17 kai iakwbon ton tou zebedaiou kai iwannhn ton adelfon tou iakwbou kai epeqhken autoiV onomata boanergeV o estin uioi bronthV

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Greetings. I have so many study folders opened they collasped How do the RCs view the 7 thunders in Revelation?
It is a rather obscure verse of which someone had a study on the Christian Scriptures board. Will have to hunt it up.

Mark 3:17 And James of the Zebedee and John the brother of the James and he places onto them names Boaneres which is sons of thunder/bronthV <1027>.

Reve 10:4 and when speak the seven thunders, I was about to be writing, and I hear a Voice out of the heaven saying, "Seal thou! which-things speak the seven thunders/brontai <1027> and no them thou should be writing.

Mark 3:17 kai iakwbon ton tou zebedaiou kai iwannhn ton adelfon tou iakwbou kai epeqhken autoiV onomata boanergeV o estin uioi bronthV

Mark 3:17

Let me get back to you on this because I do not know.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Mark 3:17

Let me get back to you on this because I do not know.

I saw this awhile back but never really looked at it close. Those 7 thunders are interesting though, but I am working on other parts of Revelation right now. Peruse with caution

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7230580&page=23
Seven Thunders of Revelations


This is the little scroll in Ez.2/9,Dan.12/4.Rev.10/4
Sweet in the mouth,Sour in the stomach
Can any one tell me or interpt.Rev.10/4
using the rule in Rev. 22/18.walt2000

 

[squint]

Sons of Thunder? Really.

You know the name "Smith" could be interpreted as "Black smith".

So if someone said Jack the son of the blacksmith that could be my new surname?

Please study Matthew 10 (where I think you got this sons of thunder). Maybe ask LLoJ to review the old scripture and translate and give his opinion. I do not know what LLoJ will say but I suspect he will agree that this line is referring to these men as being the son of someone so as to distinguish them from others with the same first name.

I did give the citing in the post. Don't remember how it got moved to Matt. 10 along the trail.

"And James the son of Zebedee, and John the brother of James; and he surnamed them Boanerges, which is, The sons of thunder"

http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=48711275&postcount=1530

enjoy!

squint

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Jesus addressed SATAN in Peter and you are STILL led to blame PETER and MEN just like the balance of your 'organization.' go figure

I beleive all this Primacy of Peter stuff should be regulated to the Christian History Board. I cannot count the number of threads created on CF just becaus of Matthew 16:18. Sheesh

http://christianforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=84
Christian History

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=6695069&page=33
The Primacy Of Peter

Originally Posted by Revelation1217

Peter was an extremely important figure in the early church.

But so what?

Peter has nothing whatsoever to do with popery.
​

 

[squint]

I beleive all this Primacy of Peter stuff should be regulated to the Christian History Board. I cannot count the number of threads created on CF just becaus of Matthew 16:18.

I think it's hilarious to use that scripture set to claim 'divine superiority' of Peter when in the next breath SATAN is speaking from Peter's lips! Now that's just a hoot!

Jesus was showing a very simple and very operational principle WITH Peter in that scripture set and it works nearly every time, to this day and was not just 'in' Peter:

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

That Peter DIDN'T understand is obvious. Peter had not a CLUE that Jesus HAD to suffer and die at the hands of the Jews and that Jesus HAD to then be resurrected....Peter then DIDN'T understand...and this is what happens when PEOPLE don't understand, again Jesus told us:

Matthew 13:19
When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

This principle couldn't have been laid out ANY CLEARER than right there IN PETER....

But of course the RCC seems again to have missed the point and UNDERSTANDETH it NOT.

enjoy!

squint

 

[archierieus]

Sons of Thunder? Really.


Please study Matthew 10 (where I think you got this sons of thunder). Maybe ask LLoJ to review the old scripture and translate and give his opinion. I do not know what LLoJ will say but I suspect he will agree that this line is referring to these men as being the son of someone so as to distinguish them from others with the same first name.

No. Mt. 10 lists the twelve, and identifies James and John as sons of Zebedee. There was also James the son of Alphaeus. They were distinguished formally in that way. Scripture also records that Jesus gave several of the disciples nicknames--James and John he calld 'sons of thunder,' (Mk. 3) Simon He called 'Peter' (John. 1) and so forth. In each recorded case, Jesus assigned these nicknames early on. The nicknames appear to have reflected personality or temperament traits. Simon was not the only one to whom Jesus gave a nickname. Nor did Jesus in Mt. 16 give him any new name or nickname. He used the one He had given him previously--and it is an interesting contrast between Peter and Christ. Note this discussion comparing the two words:

"2. The Greek text of Matthew 16:18 uses two separate (different) Greek words in the passage.
Petros, the name given to the Apostle.
Petra, the word used for rock.
Rome says that "Peter" (PETROS) is merely the masculine form of the feminine noun PETRA, and therefore means the same thing. But...
3. Classic Greek authors (before the New Testament was written) treat the words PETROS and PETRA as two different words.
According to Liddell and Scott:
Petros, ...(distinct from petra)...
Hom. IL. 16.734; 7:270; 20.288
E. Heracl.1002, "panta kinesai petron" ..."Leave no stone unturned"
cf. Pl. Lg. 843a
X. HG 3.5.20 "Petrous epekulindoun" "They rolled down stones."
S. Ph 296 to produce fire "en petroisi petron ektribon"

from: A Greek - English Lexicon, complied by Henry George Liddell and Robert Scott, pg. 1397- 8, Pub. by Oxford, at the Clarendon Press.)
NOTE: Petros, a stone, a smaller movable stone (Heracletes uses it in the phrase "leave no stone unturned.") So, a "PETROS" is a stone which can by turned over, hence, a movable stone.
Petra, a large massive rock, a large boulder, a foundation stone.
The word "Petros" is only used in the Greek New Testament as a proper name for Simon bar Jona.
Petros is not merely a masculine form of the word petra, but is a different word with a different meaning, though both words are derived from a common root.
4. The wording of Matt. 16:18 uses two different Greek words. If Jesus was referring the second word to Simon Peter he could have said "epi tauto to petro" (using the masculine gender in the dative case) the same word as "Petros." But what he said was "Epi taute te petra" using Petra, a different Greek word."

Dave

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

No. Mt. 10 lists the twelve, and identifies James and John as sons of Zebedee. There was also James the son of Alphaeus. They were distinguished formally in that way. Scripture also records that Jesus gave several of the disciples nicknames--James and John he calld 'sons of thunder,' (Mk. 3) Simon He called 'Peter' (John. 1) and so forth.

Greetings. I do not see the word "sons" in the greek in that passage. Perhaps it is implied?

Matt 10:2 Of the yet twelve Apostles the names is these: first Simon/simwn <4613>, the one being said Peter/petroV <4074>, and Andrew/andreaV <406> the brother of him, and James/iakwboV <2385> the of the Zebede/zebedaiou <2199> and John/iwannhV <2491> the brother of him.

Matthew 10:2 twn de dwdeka apostolwn ta onomata estin tauta prwtoV simwn o legomenoV petroV kai andreaV o adelfoV autou iakwboV o tou zebedaiou kai iwannhV o adelfoV autou