Perverts, Nazis, and Heretics

[sethad]

Yea...the title made me look. Guilty as charged.

However...what's so bad about having a mental illness? Most people have one in some form or another at one point in their lives. How does that make their music "bad"?

 

[jochanaan]

Yea...the title made me look. Guilty as charged.

However...what's so bad about having a mental illness? Most people have one in some form or another at one point in their lives. How does that make their music "bad"?

That's my point exactly! However, mental illness was a bad example to use. :o It should be said, though, that some composers, including Schumann, Smetana, and Hugo Wolf, suffered mental traumas far beyond the "garden-variety" neuroses or mild psychoses most of us suffer at some point in our lives--terrible enough to require institutionalization at a time when eccentricities were common and accepted among artists of all kinds. Of course, I personally believe Wagner's mental peculiarities deserve to be called psychoses.

 

[tuke]

.... Of course, I personally believe Wagner's mental peculiarities deserve to be called psychoses.

Are you referring to his anti-semitism? I know very little of his biography.

 

[jochanaan]

That too, tuke; but primarily, the man had no sexual morals. He was involved with many women, including the wife of his favorite conductor (who was also Franz Liszt's illegitimate daughter); he loved cross-dressing; and there are rumors of a homosexual affair with "Mad" King Ludwig of Bavaria. Also, he never paid his bills even when threatened with jail. I tell you, Wagner was certifiable.

 

[tuke]

Wow! Thanks, I can postpone reading his bio a little longer.

 

[Dikki]

Also, he never paid his bills even when threatened with jail

Thats just being not overly organised. I can sympathize.

I have not heard of this yet, but rumor had it Mahler was into Kinderliebe. Hence his fascination with des Knaben Wunderhorn.

 

[jochanaan]

I have not heard of this yet, but rumor had it Mahler was into Kinderliebe. Hence his fascination with des Knaben Wunderhorn.

That's a rumor I haven't heard before, and I think I would have; I'm a big Mahler fan and I've read his wife's biography of him. Alma Mahler was not the sort to hide anything unflattering about anyone.

 

[eyesofmystery]

Apparently, syphillis is what made Beethoven eventually go deaf. But he might have been born with it - I've read that his parents had it, and it can be transmitted during birth.

Also, during WWII, there were German and Austrian musicians, singers, and orchestra conductors that joined the Nazi party simply because it was the only political party that could advance their careers. They didn't necessarily agree with the Nazi opinions, but because of that, they were boycotted in America, and Jewish musicians wouldn't associate with them.

 

[jochanaan]

Very true, Eyes. Dmitri Shostakovich was coerced into joining the Communist Party after he became famous; but much of his music is anything but pro-Communist. (He wrote his share of propaganda music, but again, he was coerced. In a sense, his career was two-sided: some bright, bombastic music for the Party, but much music that is darker, deeper and more beautiful; the latter are his great masterpieces.)

 

[Dikki]

That's a rumor I haven't heard before, and I think I would have; I'm a big Mahler fan and I've read his wife's biography of him. Alma Mahler was not the sort to hide anything unflattering about anyone.

Sorry I didn't react earlier. This was a rumor I heard from a friend, but I don't know how true it is. If I have the time I will check it though. She made it sound as though everybody knew that.

 

[march56]

Ha ha! Made you look!

Seriously, though, how do the rest of you deal with the fact that many composers led less-than-exemplary lives? Tchaikovsky, Barber, and Britten among others were homosexual, Schumann and Smetana had serious mental issues, Berlioz became addicted to opium, and as for Wagner...!

A long time ago, when I realized that classical music was my life's work whether I made a living at it or not, I thought and prayed about this, and I have come to the conclusion that the way composers lived doesn't really matter to us. Now, I don't expect to find Wagner or Berlioz in heaven, and I have my doubts about Tchaikovsky and Britten. But I still play their music. I believe that musical gifts come from God whether those composers are believers or not, and how they lived has little relation to the kind of music they wrote.

By the same token, Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring depicts in music a quasi-pagan ritual in which a young woman dies by dancing; but the music is magnificent and awe-inspiring. (And that's not just because it's so incredibly hard! ) So I would have no objection to playing it--although I might think twice if the ballet production became pornographic! (I'll let you decide for yourselves what would be pornographic.)

Other views?

On what evidence do you claim certain music was inspired by god? And does it apply to all music? or only what you decide fits your parameter? Does it seem a minimum requirement be that the composer was composing music to glorify god? Such as the music of Bach?
-M.C.

 

[jochanaan]

On what evidence do you claim certain music was inspired by god? And does it apply to all music? or only what you decide fits your parameter? Does it seem a minimum requirement be that the composer was composing music to glorify god? Such as the music of Bach?
-M.C.

That's not quite what I said. I said that musical abilities come from God. What a composer does with them is up to him/her. And even if the composer had no intention to glorify God with what s/he wrote, the end result can still do just that, if the music is good and true. (Don't ask me to define "good and true" in music! It can't be done in words--only in the response of our spirits.)

To write or play or improvise a masterpiece, a musician reaches deep within himself to use resources not all of us understand how to tap. Now, sin's stains reach deep, even to the joining of soul and spirit; yet even at the deepest level there is a core of us that is like God, "in his image". (Genesis 1:27) I feel that part of His image in us is the gifts of creativity He gives to all of us in various ways, and to use this creativity to the full--even if we don't consciously think about God--is to act as the beings He made us and thus fulfill His will.

So you see, it's not nearly so simple as deciding which music is "inspired by God" and which isn't. I can only determine what inspires me.