Personality Tests...are they useful?

[MrJim]

I took this Myers-Briggs test that the anglican folks were talked about and tested out as something called Protector-Guardian.

Sounds pretty neat and sorta accurate but is it more like a horoscope-about anything said could be applied in some way, or do you think they are useful?

At work they place a lot of trust in the DiSC.

From the website:
Dominance: People who score high in the intensity of the 'D' styles factor are very active in dealing with problems and challenges, while low D scores are people who want to do more research before committing to a decision. High "D" people are described as demanding, forceful, egocentric, strong willed, driving, determined, ambitious, aggressive, and pioneering. Low D scores describe those who are conservative, low keyed, cooperative, calculating, undemanding, cautious, mild, agreeable, modest and peaceful.

Influence: People with High I scores influence others through talking and activity and tend to be emotional. They are described as convincing, magnetic, political, enthusiastic, persuasive, warm, demonstrative, trusting, and optimistic. Those with Low I scores influence more by data and facts, and not with feelings. They are described as reflective, factual, calculating, skeptical, logical, suspicious, matter of fact, pessimistic, and critical.

Steadiness: People with High S styles scores want a steady pace, security, and don't like sudden change. Low S intensity scores are those who like change and variety. High S persons are calm, relaxed, patient, possessive, predictable, deliberate, stable, consistent, and tend to be unemotional and poker faced. People with Low S scores are described as restless, demonstrative, impatient, eager, or even impulsive.

Conscientiousness: Persons with High C styles adhere to rules, regulations, and structure. They like to do quality work and do it right the first time. High C people are careful, cautious, exacting, neat, systematic, diplomatic, accurate, tactful. Those with Low C scores challenge the rules and want independence and are described as self-willed, stubborn, opinionated, unsystematic, arbitrary, and careless with details.

DiSC testing puts me in the "Developer" profile (High "D" and fairly high "C" with "i" and "S" in the gutter).

SO, accurate profiling or junk science?

 

[ZiSunka]

I know people who have taken M-B 10 or more times and they tell me that the outcome is different every time they take it. One guy I work with took it three times in one day and had three different outcomes.

I wouldn't put too much stock in them.

Even major corporations that used to require them for new employees have stopped due to the fact they yield little useful information.

 

[MrJim]

I wondered if it wasn't just junk science...

The DiSC test I took was done 11 years apart and the results were nearly the same, except the D & C were a little higher and the i & S were a little lower....

 

[~InHisHands~]

I think they are just a form of entertainment Menno.

 

[FallingWaters]

I'm sorry to hear what the couple of others think about the M-B types, or the DISC for that matter. I guess it is a tool that is more helpful to some than to others.

I have been a self-taught student of M-B profiles for about 16 years. It has been of incalculable value to me as a person and as a mother.

Firstly, my profile helped me to understand myself, why I act the way I do, and that I am not defective, but normal, and that lots of other folks are the same as me. I happen to be an INTJ which is one of the weirder types - hard to understand, hard to get to know, misunderstood. I am very hard on myself, and people were always saying, "Don't be so hard on yourself!" I always felt that I would be violating the very core of my being if I took their advice. Now I know that the way I am is okay. I don't have to be like them. That is just one example out of the very many ways M-B profiling has helped me with myself.

Actually, I need to mention something else. I have been immensely helped by understanding other people's type. I learned that when people come on real strong and hurt me or offend me, that it's not always me that's the problem; sometimes it's them. Understanding the other person's type, and where they're coming from has helped me get along with people better.

Secondly, as a Mom I am a student of my children. I especially needed this for my middle child. I would probably have crushed his spirit irreparably had I not understood that he was not defying me or being rebellious, when in his little mind, he was just making work, fun.

I took the DISC test many years apart. Both times I was a D-C. Interestingly, the results showed a pattern that reflected some sort of "conflict" that no one ever explained to me and was there both times. I frequently tell people I'm an INTJ on the outside, but an INFJ on the inside. I think there's some kind of disconnect.

I highly recommend the Barron-Tieger books to people- especially moms I know. I don't know how people can raise their kids without them.

 

[Joykins]

I am one of the people who get a different Myers-Briggs type every time I take the test.

Interestingly enough, I always score as an "I" (introvert) and "J" (judging, which means I value structure), but the letters in between have been varied.

I think the test is of some limited use; it helps to understand where a person is coming from. I used to work with a bunch of people that scored high in the "P" (perceiving?) at the end which meant they did not value structure and process so much in work. They always drove me nuts because I always wanted a highly organized plan when I was working with them and they just didn't work that way. It helped us figure out how to work better together once we figured out the personality types.

 

[FallingWaters]

I am one of the people who get a different Myers-Briggs type every time I take the test.

Interestingly enough, I always score as an "I" (introvert) and "J" (judging, which means I value structure), but the letters in between have been varied.

I think the test is of some limited use; it helps to understand where a person is coming from. I used to work with a bunch of people that scored high in the "P" (perceiving?) at the end which meant they did not value structure and process so much in work. They always drove me nuts because I always wanted a highly organized plan when I was working with them and they just didn't work that way. It helped us figure out how to work better together once we figured out the personality types.

I agree that in a work environment, it's so helpful to understand other people's preferences. It's been especially helpful for me to understand that just because other people do something differently from the way I do it doesn't mean I'm doing it wrong.

 

[ZiSunka]

I've seen personality tests used to discriminate against people, though.

Corporations used to give the tests to up-and-coming workers before promoting them. If the results didn't mesh with the standards of the company, perfectly good workers who had all the other qualities and skills necessary for the new position would be passed over for someone who maybe didn't have the right skills or experiences, but who matched the company's perfered personality profile. Often, that person didn't work out and that's why companies have largely stopped using them.

I've also seen it used prejudicially in other circumstances. They have been used to apply labels to people, like "oh, he's a INFJ, and they are always that way," or "she's ENTP, and they are always so hard to get along with." In high school, when we did the tests in our psychology class, the kids who turned out to be Js banded together and ostracized the Ps and visa versa, even if those people had been best friends before.

In my mind, it might be a handy tool to use in cases where people are having bad conflicts they can't resolve, but in most cases they are merely labels, and as you know, things that are labelled are put on a shelf, meaning that people stop relating to each other as human beings and start relating to each other as labels.

 

[FallingWaters]

I've seen personality tests used to discriminate against people, though.

Corporations used to give the tests to up-and-coming workers before promoting them. If the results didn't mesh with the standards of the company, perfectly good workers who had all the other qualities and skills necessary for the new position would be passed over for someone who maybe didn't have the right skills or experiences, but who matched the company's perfered personality profile. Often, that person didn't work out and that's why companies have largely stopped using them.

I've also seen it used prejudicially in other circumstances. They have been used to apply labels to people, like "oh, he's a INFJ, and they are always that way," or "she's ENTP, and they are always so hard to get along with." In high school, when we did the tests in our psychology class, the kids who turned out to be Js banded together and ostracized the Ps and visa versa, even if those people had been best friends before.

In my mind, it might be a handy tool to use in cases where people are having bad conflicts they can't resolve, but in most cases they are merely labels, and as you know, things that are labelled are put on a shelf, meaning that people stop relating to each other as human beings and start relating to each other as labels.

I can see where those would be bad uses of the profiles. It's too bad. No wonder you have that for your motto.

I guess it depends how you use the tool; it's just like all the other tools in the world, I guess. In the wrong people's hands, they can cause hurt.

Personality typing should be used to help each other get along and promote understanding and love, not division and hate.

 

[ZiSunka]

Personality typing should be used to help each other get along and promote understanding and love, not division and hate.

Personality typing should be used in conjuction with a good psychologist that can help people understand the results and help prevent misuses and abuses of them.

Otherwise, it's like a person doing a medical test at home and trying to interpret the results and set up a treatment plan without the help of a doctor.

 

[Joykins]

WalkInHisFootsteps, it sounds like what your company was doing was an abuse of these personality tests.

Overall, the way we used them was just to figure out how to work better with each other. That it's OK to say, "I can't answer this in the meeting off the top of my head but I will think about it and get back to you." or that it's OK if other people think out loud...that sort of thing.

 

[ZiSunka]

WalkInHisFootsteps, it sounds like what your company was doing was an abuse of these personality tests.

Overall, the way we used them was just to figure out how to work better with each other. That it's OK to say, "I can't answer this in the meeting off the top of my head but I will think about it and get back to you." or that it's OK if other people think out loud...that sort of thing.

But they are tests for professionals to use, not ordinary people. There are already too many amateur psychologists out there practicing pop psychology on too many people.

It's like a guy setting up a booth at the corner to give people cholesterol tests and then perscribing medicine to people. You don't know if he is qualified to administer the test, let alone interpret the results and hand out solutions. And not everyone is qualifed.

And really, you don't know what your company was using them for. They may have given the tests under the guise of, "this will help us work together better," but then using the information to determine who was promotable and who wasn't.

I don't remember saying anything about "my" company even giving the tests, so you are jumping to an incorrect and unsupported conclusion that I oppose them because they were incorrectly used. In fact, I have never taken one in a corporate setting so it isn't like one was used against me and now I have a grudge against them.

Nobody that isn't trained in administering the test and interpretting the results has any business giving it at all. If you want to know how to deal with your coworkers, get to know them as people, then you won't have to label them with inhuman letters of the alphabet.

 

[MrJim]

Regarding the DiSC we would use it along with the resume/application and references as a tool. We were always looking for high SC people for production, though if references and application would look good we often would give a chance anyhow.

I can say that we had hired some other profiles we knew "didn't fit" and they ended up not working out, but then we hired some "perfect" SC and they didn't work out either.

Again, just a tool we used...

 

[Joykins]

But they are tests for professionals to use, not ordinary people. There are already too many amateur psychologists out there practicing pop psychology on too many people.

Well, WHY would a professional use such a thing? It's not to diagnose any mental illness or anything. If anything, that test reminded me of the test they gave us during our premarital counseling.

And really, you don't know what your company was using them for. They may have given the tests under the guise of, "this will help us work together better," but then using the information to determine who was promotable and who wasn't.

Given their pattern of, oh, not promoting ANYONE that was in that "teambuilding session" I doubt it. I am not even sure that anyone with authority to promote had access to the test scores either.

I don't remember saying anything about "my" company even giving the tests, so you are jumping to an incorrect and unsupported conclusion that I oppose them because they were incorrectly used. In fact, I have never taken one in a corporate setting so it isn't like one was used against me and now I have a grudge against them.

I misread your saying that "companies used them" to think it was your company, sorry.

Nobody that isn't trained in administering the test and interpretting the results has any business giving it at all. If you want to know how to deal with your coworkers, get to know them as people, then you won't have to label them with inhuman letters of the alphabet.

*shrug* it was one way to get to know them better, not the only way, but it did explain some of their work behavior and help us work with the type.

I don't think they're a good tool for promotion or anything but they're good for knowing if someone would be comfortable without, say, a detailed schedule or whatever.

 

[ACADEMIC]

Definitely human science. I am an INFJ. Discovering that at age 24 was a very important moment in my journey of discovering who God created me to be.

~ INFJ ~
INFJs focus on possibilities, think in terms of values and come easily to decisions. The small number of this type (1 percent) is regrettable, since INFJs have an unusually strong drive to contribute to the welfare of others and genuinely enjoy helping their fellow men. This type has great depth of personality; they are themselves complicated, and can understand and deal with complex issues and people.

Characteristically, INFJs have strong empathic abilities and can be aware of another's emotions or intents even before that person is conscious of these. This can take the form of feeling the distress or illnesses of others to an extent which is difficult for other types. INFJs can intuit good and evil in others, although they seldom can tell how they came to know. Subsequent events tend to bear them out, however.

INFJs are usually good students, achievers who exhibit an unostentacious creativity. They take their work seriously and enjoy academic activity. They can exhibit qualities of overperfectionism and put more into a task than perhaps is justified by the nature of the task. They generally will not be visible leaders, but will quietly exert influence behind the scenes.

INFJs like to please others and tend to contribute their own best efforts in all situations. They prefer and enjoy agreeing with others, and find conflict disagreeable and destructive. INFJs have vivid imaginations exercised both as memory and intuition, and this can amount to genius.

INFJs often select liberal arts as a college major and opt for occupations which involve interacting with people, but on a one-to-one basis. For example, the general practitioner in medicine might be an INFJ, or the psychiatrist or psychologist. As with all NFs, the ministry holds attraction, although the INFJ must develop an extraverted role here which requires a great deal of energy. INFJs may be attracted to writing as a profession, and often they use language which contains an unusual degree of imagery. They are masters of the metaphor, and both their verbal and written communications tend to be elegant and complex. Their great talent for language usually is directed toward people, describing people and writing to communicate with people in a personalized way. INFJs who write comment often that they write with a particular person in mind; writing to a faceless, abstract audience leaves them uninspired.

INFJs make outstanding individual therapists who have the ability to get in touch with the archetypes of their patients in a way some other types do not. The INFJs are also the most vulnerable of all the types to the eruption of their own archetypal material. As therapists, INFJs may choose counseling, clinical psychology, or psychiatry, or may choose to teach in these fields. Writing about these professions often intrigues an INFJ. Whatever their choice, they generally are successful in these fields because their great personal warmth, their enthusiasm, their insight, their depth of concentration, their originality, and their organizational skills can all be brought into play.

At work as well as socially, INFJs are highly sensitive in their handling of others and tend to work well in an organizational structure. They have a capacity for working at jobs which require solitude and concentration, but also do well when in contact with people, providing the human interaction is not superficial. INFJs enjoy problem-solving and can understand and use human systems creatively and humanistically. As employees or employers, INFJs are concerned with people's feelings and are able to provide in themselves a barometer of the feelings of individuals and groups within the organization. INFJs listen well and are willing and able to consult and cooperate with others. Once a decision is made, they work to implement it.

INFJs are generally good at public relations and themselves have good interpersonal relations. They value staff harmony and want an organization to run smoothly and pleasantly, themselves making every effort to contribute to that end.

This is so me it is uncanny.

-------------------------------------------

 

[FallingWaters]

Definitely human science. I am an INFJ. Discovering that at age 24 was a very important moment in my journey of discovering who God created me to be.
...

This is so me it is uncanny.

You remind me of another important aspect of understanding type, and that has to do with career choice.

Before my daughter started college, we took her type into consideration when suggesting a major.

 

[Joykins]

One of the interesting topics that came up when we did the Myers-Briggs test at work, is one guy asked if personality types had anything to do with whether a person was religious. The tester said it usually didn't influence whether a person was religious, but it might affect how they approached their religion.

 

[FallingWaters]

... If you want to know how to deal with your coworkers, get to know them as people, then you won't have to label them with inhuman letters of the alphabet.

While that approach may work for you, it didn't work for me. You are probably able to do that with people. I myself have never seen it done. I have no Social giftedness. I was going through life thinking I was defective and everyone else was okay. I really don't think that's better.

I understand what you're saying though. There are not 16 different people in the world! Every INFJ I meet is different. Even their profile will probably be only about 85% true. They're not all exactly the same. Their experiences, dreams, skills, backgrounds, culture, and whatever else there is, all contribute to making them who they are.

But my point is that there are some general things I can understand about most INFJs that will help me get along with that person, not offend them, and understand where they're coming from. I always keep my mind open to learning about that person specifically. Understanding their type is just a starting block.

I've met a couple people who hate "putting people in boxes". I put EVERYTHING in boxes. My whole life is all about boxes. Personally, my brain needs it. I really can't think outside of the box even when I try! My kids laugh at my attempts at being "random".

It's obvious this is extremely important to you or else you wouldn't have a motto about it. I can accept the way you are, and I hope you can accept the way I am.

 

[FallingWaters]

One of the interesting topics that came up when we did the Myers-Briggs test at work, is one guy asked if personality types had anything to do with whether a person was religious. The tester said it usually didn't influence whether a person was religious, but it might affect how they approached their religion.

My sister bought me a book on that topic but I don't care for it. Something like that is way too hard to measure.

 

[ACADEMIC]

If you want to know how to deal with your coworkers, get to know them as people, then you won't have to label them with inhuman letters of the alphabet.

What if, as part of human genetics, each person regardless of culture or gender or any other factors, were basicaly and generally gentically "typed" as one of 16 types? What of this is how God Himself made human beings? What if God allowed people to discover these 16 types? Don't you think that info would be very valuable, so long as we use the knowledge as a tool for understanding self and others, not creating boxes or dogma?