And how does that make the company they run a non-profit? Is it part of current tax law, or are you just advocating for more government interference on how private companies are run?
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[PERMANENTLY CLOSED] Planned Parenthood Falsely Accussed in Video
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And how does that make the company they run a non-profit? Is it part of current tax law, or are you just advocating for more government interference on how private companies are run?
Getting back to the actual topic, it looks like the claims of the Center for Medical Progress don't stand up to scrutiny very well : http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/state-investigations-planned-parenthood_55ce0c00e4b0ab468d9d1490
States Try To Dig Up Planned Parenthood Violations, Fail Miserably
“In every state where these investigations have concluded, officials have cleared Planned Parenthood of any wrongdoing," said Dawn Laguens, executive vice president of Planned Parenthood Federation of America, in a statement Friday. "We've said all along that Planned Parenthood follows all laws and has very high medical standards, and that's what every one of these investigations has found. This campaign by anti-abortion extremists is nothing less than a fraud, intended to deceive the public with patently false claims in order to pursue an extreme political agenda."
States Try To Dig Up Planned Parenthood Violations, Fail Miserably
“In every state where these investigations have concluded, officials have cleared Planned Parenthood of any wrongdoing," said Dawn Laguens, executive vice president of Planned Parenthood Federation of America, in a statement Friday. "We've said all along that Planned Parenthood follows all laws and has very high medical standards, and that's what every one of these investigations has found. This campaign by anti-abortion extremists is nothing less than a fraud, intended to deceive the public with patently false claims in order to pursue an extreme political agenda."
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I agree that this source is supportive of PP.
However, are their assertions that the completed investigations have exonerated PP of selling baby parts correct? Is there a completed investigation that has found that they are indeed guilty?
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revanneosl
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I know that investigations in Indiana, Georgia, South Dakota and Georgia revealed that they had done nothing wrong in those States.
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Hypothetical question for anyone in this thread: If all of the investigations that have been launched on this issue follow suit and find that PP has been operating entirely lawfully in regard to fetal remains, how will you view this issue?
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PapaZoom
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This issue of abortion by PP or the issue of selling baby body parts and altering procedures to procure intact fetal remains?
Honest answer (as best as I can off the cuff): I've no change in the issue of abortion. It's morally wrong and ought to be outlawed. That's always been my view.
Selling of body parts: I'd view such a finding (of having done nothing illegal) with suspicion and seek to find out the reasoning behind the ruling. I wouldn't suddenly be ok with what I've seen on the videos.
It's bad enough for me that they are even donating the fetal tissue let alone getting reimbursed. I can't stomach the idea of dissecting of little bodies and distributing brain, heart, lung, or liver parts even if good could come from it. The "good that could come from it" doesn't justify the practice in my view. If it did justify it, then killing you and using your organs for good would justify killing you. That simply is bad thinking.
For me the videos exposed a dark side of the abortion business, even IF PP did nothing legally wrong. Abortion is legal but I still think it wrong. So if PP is found NOT to be breaking the law in the things of which they are accused, then they didn't break the law. But I would still find the practice of cutting up a fetus and donating/selling body parts unconscionable. If PP was found innocent of altering procedures I'd have to wonder what was meant in the videos when they talked about altering procedures.
No matter the outcome, I'd love to see PP defunded. I felt this way even before the videos surfaced.
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AHH who-stole-my-name
in accordance with Christ
As I did all the way through. it was a political hit piece that was directed towards something the makers of the video disliked.
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revanneosl
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This issue of abortion by PP or the issue of fetal tissue for medical research?
Honest answer (as best as I can off the cuff): I've no change in the issue of abortion. It's a legal procedure that women (including poor women) should have access to. That's always been my view.
Fetal tissue for medical research: I'd view such a finding (of having done nothing illegal) with my previous equanimity, and be somewhat miffed that various state governments have wasted so much money on investigations (much as they have wasted, and continue to waste, taxpayer money on drug testing people who receive public assistance.
It's awesome to me that people are doing medical research that will save lives, using tissue that would otherwise be incinerated as medical waste.I myself an am organ and tissue donor.
For me the videos exposed a dark side of the "pro-life" business. Even If many pro-life individuals are sincere in their feelings and beliefs, the "pro-life" political industry is willing to lie & cheat in order to generate the massive donation income that they currently enjoy. Political activism is legal, but I still thing that it's wrong for political action groups to commit identity theft and tell lies in order to increase their fundraising. If the Center For Medical Progress is found NOT to be breaking the law in the things of which they are accused, then they didn't break the law. But I would still find the practice of pretending to be someone you are not, and producing misleading videos in order to gin up outrage and raise money to be unconscionable.
No matter the outcome, I'd love to see a world in which it was taken for granted that adult women were capable of making informed, moral decision about their own bodies. I felt this way even before the videos surfaced.
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Almost all investigations that end early are similar. So the claim "have concluded" is meaningless. Besides which to my knowledge not all video evidence has been released.
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Which has always been one of the key issues in this thread not just the legality of it. Plus the issue of how much money is made off selling the parts is important no matter what anyone says about "they were going to be incinerated anyway". it opens up the potential that a woman who is conflicted may be encouraged due to an expressed want for parts to murder her baby.
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Soooo.......umm........outlaw journalistic investigation for only those organizations you don't agree with is what you are saying then. We gotchya (and before you say only news organizations you might want to check how often they have used third party video to bring serious issues to light)
Well if its so awesome why don't we do it for everyone? why just the murdered babies that no one asked? basically when someone dies the hospital, morgue or funeral company will release only whats left from the dismembered body if anything for the family to bury -automatic - family, patient gets no say.
We all wish men and women would but they still keep getting pregnant when they don't want to and then because they are incompetent they have to make decisions about someone else's body to make up for their own incapability to make adult decisions. Why should what is demonstrably false have be taken for granted.
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It would be illegal to bring up the option of making the donation prior to the woman making her decision and signing a consent for the abortion procedure. Presumably, in investigating the issue, if this were found be have been done, then PP would be in trouble. I have the documentation on this posted somewhere back in the thread.
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Also, possibly of interest is this PDF that goes over some of the considerations that go into determining the amount of reimbursement that can be collected for preparing and transporting a donated organ. It goes over things like the cost of maintaining the space necessary for preparing the organs for transport, keeping track of staff hours devoted to the task, physician fee schedules, equipment depreciation and such. It is all stuff that has to be documented and there are stiff fines for attempting to collect more than is actually due. One cannot simply charge whatever the market will bear.
If PP was negotiating for higher payments, I wonder if they were being payed less than what they could justify collecting, in effect bearing part of the cost themselves in order to provide this service, and wanted to correct this if possible. I'm not sure how to find out the answer to this question.
(I Found it interesting that a physician can collect up to $1250 for a cardiac excision.)
If PP was negotiating for higher payments, I wonder if they were being payed less than what they could justify collecting, in effect bearing part of the cost themselves in order to provide this service, and wanted to correct this if possible. I'm not sure how to find out the answer to this question.
(I Found it interesting that a physician can collect up to $1250 for a cardiac excision.)
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who said anything about bringing up the option of making a donation prior to her decision? You can help her make the decision in a variety of ways with the knowledge that the result will make cash for PP.
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I thought that by "expressed wants" you meant that someone was expressing to the woman that there was a want for fetal donations and thus influencing her decision to have an abortion.
Something you might want to consider is that the people who work in PP's abortion clinics actually care about their patients, want to be careful not to pressure them into making any particular decision, and are just as satisfied to hand someone who arrived thinking she wanted an abortion a prenatal referral instead and watch her go out the door if that's what she decides. People do not tend to be so black-and-white that if they do something that we morally disapprove of that they are probably utterly craven in every imaginable way. Most of us are more nuanced than that, aren't we? You are. I am.
I think that will actually bring us closer to the truth here.
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I don't know if every PP does so, but I am aware of some PP abortion providers who have volunteers who talk with each woman before she signs her consent, acting as a sounding board, making sure she knows all her options, and making sure she feels firm in her decision. As volunteers, they have no stake in what kind of fees are collected, how many stay and how many leave. Some of them do it because they have been in the same position and were grateful to PP for being there for them.
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