[PERMANENTLY CLOSED] A problem at the bottom of reason

[Freodin]

I am telling you (and corroborating) what is written: We [not just I] have the (infinite) mind of Christ, and it is no longer I who live (in this finite) body, but Christ who lives in me.

Don't you think that the infinite mind of Christ would have something more to offer to corrobate these claims than to repeat: "It's true! It's true, just believe what I tell you!" ?

I mean, you might have this infinite mind within you to tell you what is right and wrong... but obviously I don't. So how would I know?

"Keep asking!", I am told... and I do. I keep asking. And the answers I get are just the repitition: Keep asking!

Hey, but now you are here... and so I can ask this Christ who lives in you directly: I have that (special) question. I'd like to have an answer. If you could provide an answer to this question, I would have a sound reason to believe that it is indeed the living-Christ-within-ScottA that I am conversing with... and not just another wacko.

I am here and I am sincere. Just give me a reason.

 

[madera23]

Madera, the things you are saying are very polarizing. As Christians it should be our goal to be united as one body in Christ and reach out to those in need with love. It seems you'd rather push those who claim to be Christian away for some reason that I don't understand. God is doing work in me that has changed my life dramatically and without that life changing work I'd be lost forever. I'd ask that you don't push away those that God can work through, but rather embrace the work that God is doing and rejoice in knowing his plan is perfect.

 

[madera23]

You are right about one thing, you do not understand preacher.
If the truth pushes people away, so be it.

Madera

 

[madera23]

Don't you think that the infinite mind of Christ would have something more to offer to corrobate these claims than to repeat: "It's true! It's true, just believe what I tell you!" ?





I mean, you might have this infinite mind within you to tell you what is right and wrong... but obviously I don't. So how would I know?

"Keep asking!", I am told... and I do. I keep asking. And the answers I get are just the repitition: Keep asking!

Hey, but now you are here... and so I can ask this Christ who lives in you directly: I have that (special) question. I'd like to have an answer. If you could provide an answer to this question, I would have a sound reason to believe that it is indeed the living-Christ-within-ScottA that I am conversing with... and not just another wacko.

I am here and I am sincere. Just give me a reason.

You are demanding an answer, but, dont you know the answer is within you?
all you need to do Is have a deep desire to know by going right to the source of God Himself hungering for an answer.
just be sincere that is all it takes.
Madera

 

[Chriliman]

You are right about one thing, you do not understand preacher.
If the truth pushes people away, so be it.

Madera

Right, if we see someone in sin, it is our responsibility as fellow believers to speak the truth in love to those who are sinning and hope they will repent. If they don't repent, we then bring more fellow believers and our pastor to speak the truth to the sinner, but if they still don't listen we are to bring the issue up in front of the entire church and if they still don't listen they are to be turned away from the church so that God himself can show them why they are wrong in a way that only God can. This is clear instructions on how to deal with believers who have faulty beliefs that may be causing them to sin.

So if you and I went to the same church, I would bring up this issue of how you don't believe I'm a Christian to fellow believers and get input and then eventually bring it up to the pastor and see where we get. Unfortunately, we don't go to the same church, but we are a part of the same body of Christ, so I'd hope by now you're beginning to realize you are wrong about me. But if not, I'm confident God is either doing work in your heart, or my heart in order to teach both of us something.

God bless!

 

[Freodin]

Madera23, as I understand it, Jesus was a character that died almost 2000 years ago, long before modern technology.

But as he is also said the be the allmighty God, and he is said to be "living in you"... don't you think he should be able to tell you how to use the quote-function of the forum?

This now is the second time in this thread that you quoted on of my posts without saying anything yourself. If this is your intention... well, fine, but it is not helping anything. If it isn't: just ask for help.

Contrary to God, the humans here are known to tell you things that you do not already know.

 

[madera23]

Right, if we see someone in sin, it is our responsibility as fellow believers to speak the truth in love to those who are sinning and hope they will repent. If they don't repent, we then bring more fellow believers and our pastor to speak the truth to the sinner, but if they still don't listen we are to bring the issue up in front of the entire church and if they still don't listen they are to be turned away from the church so that God himself can show them why they are wrong in a way that only God can. This is clear instructions on how to deal with believers who have faulty beliefs that may be causing them to sin.

So if you and I went to the same church, I would bring up this issue of how you don't believe I'm a Christian to fellow believers and get input and then eventually bring it up to the pastor and see where we get. Unfortunately, we don't go to the same church, but we are a part of the same body of Christ, so I'd hope by now you're beginning to realize you are wrong about me. But if not, I'm confident God is either doing work in your heart, or my heart in order to teach both of us something.

God bless!

Please, you don't know the difference between religious and spiritual understanding.
Christ is not religious, He is spiritual and to understand the difference you have much to learn.
No, we don't go to the same church, my church is within not in any building made by hands. Big difference.
We are on two different paths, one is religious and one is spiritual, and since God is spiritual you must be on the wrong path.
Have a nice day.
Madera

 

[Chriliman]

Please, you don't know the difference between religious and spiritual understanding.
Christ is not religious, He is spiritual and to understand the difference you have much to learn.
No, we don't go to the same church, my church is within not in any building made by hands. Big difference.
We are on two different paths, one is religious and one is spiritual, and since God is spiritual you must be on the wrong path.
Have a nice day.
Madera

I'm not sure where you got this idea that I'm not spiritual. I pray for the wisdom of the Holy Spirit everyday and I know I receive that wisdom everyday. The city I live near is in the middle of a revival, where Christians are reaching out to the community and bringing people to Christ and my own sister was fortunate enough to be able to heal many ailments of different people through the power of Jesus. This is all signs of things to come, the end is near. The question is are you awake and paying attention? If you claim Jesus as your lord and savior then I believe you are and so am I, so lets unite in the body of Christ and set aside our quarrels and focus on Him. Amen?

 

[madera23]

Madera23, as I understand it, Jesus was a character that died almost 2000 years ago, long before modern technology.

But as he is also said the be the allmighty God, and he is said to be "living in you"... don't you think he should be able to tell you how to use the quote-function of the forum?

This now is the second time in this thread that you quoted on of my posts without saying anything yourself. If this is your intention... well, fine, but it is not helping anything. If it isn't: just ask for help.

Contrary to God, the humans here are known to tell you things that you do not already know.

Sorry if I posted in the wrong place, If I do it again, just spank me.
No big deal.

 

[madera23]

I'm not sure where you got this idea that I'm not spiritual. I pray for the wisdom of the Holy Spirit everyday and I know I receive that wisdom everyday. The city I live near is in the middle of a revival, where Christians are reaching out to the community and bringing people to Christ and my own sister was fortunate enough to be able to heal many ailments of different people through the power of Jesus. This is all signs of things to come, the end is near. The question is are you awake and paying attention? If you claim Jesus as your lord and savior then I believe you are and so am I, so lets unite in the body of Christ and set aside our quarrels and focus on Him. Amen?

God help you..

 

[Chriliman]

God help you..

I'll ignore the snarky connotation and take that as you want God to literally help me and I appreciate that because I want the same thing

God bless!

 

[ScottA]

Don't you think that the infinite mind of Christ would have something more to offer to corrobate these claims than to repeat: "It's true! It's true, just believe what I tell you!" ?

I mean, you might have this infinite mind within you to tell you what is right and wrong... but obviously I don't. So how would I know?

"Keep asking!", I am told... and I do. I keep asking. And the answers I get are just the repitition: Keep asking!

Hey, but now you are here... and so I can ask this Christ who lives in you directly: I have that (special) question. I'd like to have an answer. If you could provide an answer to this question, I would have a sound reason to believe that it is indeed the living-Christ-within-ScottA that I am conversing with... and not just another wacko.

I am here and I am sincere. Just give me a reason.

You, unfortunately, have come along at the "ditto", "ditto" stage. All the more elaborate details were given 2000 years ago, and are written and recorded, to refer back to. Even so, Christ left off with his own chosen inner circle, telling them he had many more things to tell them...but they could not bear it then. The reason they could not bear anything more, was because they were limited to their natural mind...and anything more would have to be received through the spiritual plane. So...start with the natural stuff...and when you are ready to move on, the rest will come.

Your request has been heard.

 

[Freodin]

You, unfortunately, have come along at the "ditto", "ditto" stage. All the more elaborate details were given 2000 years ago, and are written and recorded, to refer back to. Even so, Christ left off with his own chosen inner circle, telling them he had many more things to tell them...but they could not bear it then. The reason they could not bear anything more, was because they were limited to their natural mind...and anything more would have to be received through the spiritual plane. So...start with the natural stuff...and when you are ready to move on, the rest will come.

And with every post of this kind, you move farther from the "mind of Christ" side and into the "wacko" side. You don't have anything of your own to offer - you just keep parroting the excuses of the last centuries.

This "new world" analogy that you like to present: it is very fitting. Columbus made four voyages into this "new world"... and until his death he believed he had sailed to China. It wasn't a case of brave explorer setting out into the unknown and looking what he would find... it was a mad-man scheme based on false informations, that by pure chance didn't fail. But nothing could convince the "believer" that he was wrong.

Just like you.

Your request has been heard.

And you cannot answer it. You haven't even understood it. So much for the "mind of Christ" within you.

 

[ScottA]

And with every post of this kind, you move farther from the "mind of Christ" side and into the "wacko" side. You don't have anything of your own to offer - you just keep parroting the excuses of the last centuries.

This "new world" analogy that you like to present: it is very fitting. Columbus made four voyages into this "new world"... and until his death he believed he had sailed to China. It wasn't a case of brave explorer setting out into the unknown and looking what he would find... it was a mad-man scheme based on false informations, that by pure chance didn't fail. But nothing could convince the "believer" that he was wrong.

Just like you.


And you cannot answer it. You haven't even understood it. So much for the "mind of Christ" within you.

I am in the lifeboat.
You are in the water.
I have extended my hand to you, just as millions of others have.
And this is your answer?
Never mind.

 

[ScottA]

And you cannot answer it. You haven't even understood it. So much for the "mind of Christ" within you.

That's not fair. I will elaborate:

The dye is cast, was cast...2000 years ago. Current status: "It is finished." Access now is limited to an eternal reality that cannot be changed...except by you. If I, having the mind of Christ access the infinite data base, and do not find you and your question, it is because you have not [yet] entered into it (you don't exist there). Should you decide to change that...I WILL know. Use this time wisely.

 

[Freodin]

I am in the lifeboat.
You are in the water.
I have extended my hand to you, just as millions of others have.
And this is your answer?
Never mind.

You claim that you are in the lifeboat. I don't see any. I ask you to show me the lifeboat. You cannot.
You claim that I am in the water. I don't see any. I ask you to show me the water. You cannot.
You claim that you extend your hand to help me. I ask you to show me how you could help me. You cannot.

You have nothing to offer but claims and empty rhetoric. But again I ask you to prove me wrong.

You claim to have miracles and prophecies and millions of testamonies. I don't ask for any of these. I ask for an answer... and certainly one with "the mind of Christ in him" would have the means to answer me.

Can you? I doubt it... but I am willing to be shown wrong.

That's not fair. I will elaborate:

The dye is cast, was cast...2000 years ago. Current status: "It is finished." Access now is limited to an eternal reality that cannot be changed...except by you. If I, having the mind of Christ access the infinite data base, and do not find you and your question, it is because you have not [yet] entered into it (you don't exist there). Should you decide to change that...I WILL know. Use this time wisely.

And you have the chuzpah to call others "wacko"? Get real!

But I have to admit: that is an excuse that I haven't heard before. Cudos for presenting something new.

 

[Eudaimonist]

I am in the lifeboat.
You are in the water.

I am happy for you if your belief that you are in a "lifeboat" brings comfort to you.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[madera23]

Madera23, as I understand it, Jesus was a character that died almost 2000 years ago, long before modern technology.

But as he is also said the be the allmighty God, and he is said to be "living in you"... don't you think he should be able to tell you how to use the quote-function of the forum?

This now is the second time in this thread that you quoted on of my posts without saying anything yourself. If this is your intention... well, fine, but it is not helping anything. If it isn't: just ask for help.

Contrary to God, the humans here are known to tell you things that you do not already know.

Help
What are you saying here?
Hier sitz´ich, forme Menschen
Nach meinem Bilde,
Ein Geschlecht, das mir gleich sei,
Zu leiden, zu weinen,
Zu genießen und zu freuen sich
Und dein nicht zu achten,
Wie ich

So far I got here is I.menchen (people)
wie we
leiden weight
und dein (on your night?


That happens only on using my tablet.

And with every post of this kind, you move farther from the "mind of Christ" side and into the "wacko" side. You don't have anything of your own to offer - you just keep parroting the excuses of the last centuries.

This "new world" analogy that you like to present: it is very fitting. Columbus made four voyages into this "new world"... and until his death he believed he had sailed to China. It wasn't a case of brave explorer setting out into the unknown and looking what he would find... it was a mad-man scheme based on false informations, that by pure chance didn't fail. But nothing could convince the "believer" that he was wrong.

Just like you.


And you cannot answer it. You haven't even understood it. So much for the "mind of Christ" within you.

You claim that you are in the lifeboat. I don't see any. I ask you to show me the lifeboat. You cannot.
You claim that I am in the water. I don't see any. I ask you to show me the water. You cannot.
You claim that you extend your hand to help me. I ask you to show me how you could help me. You cannot.

You have nothing to offer but claims and empty rhetoric. But again I ask you to prove me wrong.

You claim to have miracles and prophecies and millions of testamonies. I don't ask for any of these. I ask for an answer... and certainly one with "the mind of Christ in him" would have the means to answer me.

Can you? I doubt it... but I am willing to be shown wrong.


And you have the chuzpah to call others "wacko"? Get real!

But I have to admit: that is an excuse that I haven't heard before. Cudos for presenting something new.

 

[Freodin]

Help
What are you saying here?
Hier sitz´ich, forme Menschen
Nach meinem Bilde,
Ein Geschlecht, das mir gleich sei,
Zu leiden, zu weinen,
Zu genießen und zu freuen sich
Und dein nicht zu achten,
Wie ich

So far I got here is I.menchen (people)
wie we
leiden weight
und dein (on your night?


That happens only on using my tablet.

This is a verse from the poem "Prometheus" by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe. There are translations availiable online, for example here.

 

[ScottA]

You claim that you are in the lifeboat. I don't see any. I ask you to show me the lifeboat. You cannot.
You claim that I am in the water. I don't see any. I ask you to show me the water. You cannot.
You claim that you extend your hand to help me. I ask you to show me how you could help me. You cannot.

You have nothing to offer but claims and empty rhetoric. But again I ask you to prove me wrong.

You claim to have miracles and prophecies and millions of testamonies. I don't ask for any of these. I ask for an answer... and certainly one with "the mind of Christ in him" would have the means to answer me.

Can you? I doubt it... but I am willing to be shown wrong.


And you have the chuzpah to call others "wacko"? Get real!

But I have to admit: that is an excuse that I haven't heard before. Cudos for presenting something new.

You have been a sport. I can only tell you what I see, your own sight is not in my hands, but in your own eternal fate: your time is at hand. Fair thee well.