Perfection, when will we gain it?

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If we think we can sin without a High Priest in the Hebrews 8 and 9 Sanctuary interceding for us - and still live -- we have not read enough of the Bible.



good point - and so the answer I gave never made the statement "This is when we will say we are sinless".

But as you know many who oppose the Bible truths of Rev 15:8 and 1 John 2:1 and 1 John 3:4-9 would like to insert something like "people who say they are sinless are ...." as if that is what is going on.


As we always say in these discussions "details matter"

I agree with you. When the issue of perfection or sinnlessness enters into a Christian discussion satan is there to ad a touch of dissension. And the verse 1John 1:8 will always be the ONLY excuse to prove that we can never stop sinning. BUT this verse is always used out of context, because saying and doing are two different things as you know.

 

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If we think we can sin without a High Priest in the Hebrews 8 and 9 Sanctuary interceding for us - and still live -- we have not read enough of the Bible.

I agree. This will never happen. After the close of probation and the plagues are being poured out there can be intercession, but the 144,000 will be looking at themselves as sinners and sweating the events taking place at the time. Their faces will be white in terror.

This does not exclude our ability to stop sinning today through faith in Jesus blood.

 

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Yeah, that sinless state is the destination. But we can only focus on the journey. If our eyes are fixed on Jesus, then we always will fall short of him. Even the 144000 will experience the intensive soul searching if all their sins have been atoned for during the time of Jacob's trouble. So it's one thing to say 'I have the assurance of salvation', it's another to say 'I have arrived'.

If we do not believe we can stop sinning today we will be sinning our way until Jesus comes and then it will be too late. Far too many false teachers teach that there will come a time when we will be sinless. That time has got to be now. We certainly need to focus out attention personally on the destination, but as teachers of the word we must help other focus their attention on the truth that satan has been perverting forever. This doctrine is the most attacked of all.

On our walk of sanctification we are sanctified, past tense every step of the way. Otherwise nobody could do the Lords work because we are told that those only who are sanctified can do the Lord's work. To be sanctified means to be righteous, and one of the most awesome verses in the bible states: 2Corinthians:3:18: "But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord." This is sanctification. We will be sanctified every step of the way, from glory to glory as we behold Jesus and follow all the convictions of the Holy Spirit.

This doctrine is very simple but there are far too many who want to intellectualize it into something foreign to the gospel of Jesus Christ. Not many teachers today will come out and say that we must live without sin today. I inspect all teachers and we must do that otherwise we risk leading our people to false teachers. Jesus said you shall know them by their fruits. We are fruit inspectors when it comes to teachers and pastors etc. Like I stated that I studied with Ty Gibson years ago and today his teaching is far more subtle than it use to be. Him and his clan are deceiving many, along with many other false teachers. Anybody who teaches that there will come a time in the future when we will be without sin they are lying. Ivor Myers even stated that the man cannot live without sinning today, but Sister White says that "it is satan that says that man cannot live without sin." Myers goes on to say that when we are "glorified" then we will be without sin. If we wait until then we will be lost because when we are glorified we will be in heaven, and all our sins have to be gone way before then.

 

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Here is Ellen White on the subject...
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AWESOME! I cut and pasted all of these quotes to ad to my studies. Thank you for posting them here. It is quite amazing how much diet has to do with perfection of character.

The greatest blessings of these quotes is that she tells us that we must be perfect, and sinless now so we will be able to finish the work. In 2Tmothy:2:21: we read "If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work." We must be sanctified in order to do the Lord's work.

Years ago the SS quarterly was on sanctification. During one of the lessons we had a guest speaker so the whole church sat in the sanctuary and the pastor led the class. While he was talking he brought up a point which raised a question in my mind, so I raised my hand and I asked him "when will we be sanctified" the reaction was amazing! He looked at me with horror, and the whole congregation started stirring uneasily. Then he does this thing with his finger when he doesn't want to admit something, he scratches his head and looks at me and says "I did not want to get into that today". This comment floored me. This pastor preached strong sermons but that day his lack of knowledge on the very important subject of righteousness by faith was revealed in a big way. Far too many leaders in all denominations don't want to know, or don't realize the truth on this most important doctrine of salvation. Satan wants us to have 99% of the truth but the 1% which he is expert at deception is this doctrine. The most perverted doctrine of all. I prayed many times with that pastor and shared bible and SOP principles that he was wrong about, but to no avail. Who am I to lovingly admonish a pastor? We never argued, and I pray for him sometimes in hopes that he will see the truth about having to be sanctified, past tense before we can do the Lord's work.