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So, in a recent discussion I came across the view that God does not demand perfection in the keeping of His commandments.
Anyone else feel that way?
Why do people compare Christ, the Perfect One forgiving us to two people (both sinners) and what would happen between two unperfect people in a relationship?So forgiveness amounts to just paying lip service. How does that work in a real relationship? For example: If a husband cheats on his wife all the time and just says he is sorry to her, do you think she would buy that he really repented? Surely not.
This truth is expressed in the Parable of the Two Sons, as well.
28 "But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him." (Matthew 21:28-32).
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You've seen and heard the verses plenty of times, cause I've seen many point them out to you on here, yet watched you just ignore them over and over again...? Your stuck in your ways, and this is quite pointless with you and a waste of my time, energy and effort...
You said:You haven't answered nor paid attention to, as you refuse to address anything I've said either, so I will waste no more time on this...
You said:I will say this much to you, then I'm done...
If you do not admit you sin and are a sinner, then your a liar and calling God a liar (In 1 John)... (1 John 1:8-10) and are trying to spread a doctrine that is against Christ and are a false prophet/teacher, just like a pharisee...
You said:Why should I waste my time on a liar...?
You said:Go headlong into the trap if you wish, see how much I care...
You said:God Bless!
Yes, their acts of faith and acts of righteousness are commended by God.And none of them justified a sinful lifestyle.
Yes, some of them made mistakes, but God did not approve of them while they were in sin.
They were commended for their great acts of faith.
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Why do people compare Christ, the Perfect One forgiving us to two people (both sinners) and what would happen between two unperfect people in a relationship?
And then after you ask an opinion on a relationship that is not about God, you start quoting scripture?
I don't think you should do this, go from an example of Christ and His righteous and just relationship with us, then to creating a scenario based on two imperfect people.
It's like veggies and meat and comparing them to each other.
Yes, their acts of faith and acts of righteousness are commended by God.
Yes, Jude speaks of judgement to come on those who are wicked.But God also teaches in His Word that those who seek to justify sin will not make it.
Jude 1:4 talks about those who turn God's grace into a license for immorality.
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Yes, Jude speaks of judgement to come on those who are wicked.
Beloved, while I was giving all diligence to write unto you of our common salvation, I was constrained to write unto you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in privily, even they who were of old written of beforehand unto this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. Now I desire to put you in remembrance, though ye know all things once for all, that the Lord, having saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. And angels that kept not their own principality, but left their proper habitation, he hath kept in everlasting bonds under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them, having in like manner with these given themselves over to fornication and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire. Yet in like manner these also in their dreamings defile the flesh, and set at nought dominion, and rail at dignities. But Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing judgment, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. But these rail at whatsoever things they know not: and what they understand naturally, like the creatures without reason, in these things are they destroyed. Woe unto them! for they went in the way of Cain, and ran riotously in the error of Balaam for hire, and perished in the gainsaying of Korah. These are they who are hidden rocks in your love-feasts when they feast with you, shepherds that without fear feed themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; wild waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the blackness of darkness hath been reserved for ever. And to these also Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, Behold, the Lord came with ten thousands of his holy ones, to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their works of ungodliness which they have ungodly wrought, and of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their lusts (and their mouth speaketh great swelling words), showing respect of persons for the sake of advantage.Verse 4 is in italics.
Jude 1:3-16
First, if you are going to ask me a question, then at least be patient enough to wait for an answer instead of answering it for me. That's not very humble to tell someone else that you know them and their beliefs better than they do.Jesus used real world examples all the time. Jesus also said great was the faith of the woman who also used a parable. Parables parallel a real world truth with a spiritual truth. This is something that cannot be done with your belief. Look at the analogy of the parable of the two sons. How exactly does that line up with your belief? It simply doesn't.
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Jude 1:4 is not about Christians, it is about those who "snuck in unaware".But God also teaches in His Word that those who seek to justify sin will not make it.
Jude 1:4 talks about those who turn God's grace into a license for immorality.
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Why do people compare Christ, the Perfect One forgiving us to two people (both sinners) and what would happen between two unperfect people in a relationship?
And then after you ask an opinion on a relationship that is not about God, you start quoting scripture?
I don't think you should do this, go from an example of Christ and His righteous and just relationship with us, then to creating a scenario based on two imperfect people.
It's like veggies and meat and comparing them to each other.
Jude 1:4 is not about Christians, it is about those who "snuck in unaware".
What do you mean that 'this cannot be done with my belief"?
But you did not say that. You were talking to someone who is a professed Christian using this verse to prove a point that those who make a justification for sin based on this verse, but this verse is not about professing believers at all.If they snuck in unaware they are those who are posing as Christians.
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I believe as God's Word says that we were purchased by Christ for a price, a large price. And that when we are saved we are as Romans 4, 5 and 6 says we die to sin in Christ as He did. We are created into a new creation by Christ and sealed with the Holy Spirit as a seal of the New Covenant being co-heirs with Christ to the Father and that the Holy Spirit is our down payment now and the rest of our inheritance will come after we die.You believe in Eternal Security or that "Sin Does Not Separate a Believer from God"? Yes?
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Is there even a thing as living holy as a requirement in your belief?
If God did not expect sinlessness, then why did Christ have to die in your place?
This is the foundation of the Gospel. It surprises me that there are any that would make the case that God does not demand perfection as such a thought makes the incarnation and the atonement devoid of purpose.
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