Perfection or no?

jimmyjimmy · May 29, 2017

And can it be that I should gain
An interest in the Savior’s blood?
Died He for me, who caused His pain—
For me, who Him to death pursued?
Amazing love! How can it be,
That Thou, my God, shouldst die for me?
Amazing love! How can it be,
That Thou, my God, shouldst die for me?

Bible Highlighter · May 29, 2017

jimmyjimmy said:
And can it be that I should gain
An interest in the Savior’s blood?
Died He for me, who caused His pain—
For me, who Him to death pursued?
Amazing love! How can it be,
That Thou, my God, shouldst die for me?
Amazing love! How can it be,
That Thou, my God, shouldst die for me?

The way to get Jesus's blood applied to your life is to walk in the light of Jesus Christ.

See 1 John 1:7.

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Bible Highlighter · May 29, 2017

Again, you have to hit the "Ignore button" every time you read the Scriptures in order not see the many warnings that are given to us believers on how sin can separate us from God (if such sins are not confessed and forsaken).

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Bible Highlighter · May 29, 2017

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ByTheSpirit · May 29, 2017

Reformationist said:
So, in a recent discussion I came across the view that God does not demand perfection in the keeping of His commandments.

Anyone else feel that way?

Which commandment?

There is only one that we need worry about.

Love your neighbor as yourself.

ByTheSpirit · May 29, 2017

To love your neighbor as yourself fulfills the entire law of God.

1 John 4:20

Actually the whole epistle of 1 John talks about this.

So does God demand we obey his COMMAND perfectly... yes he does, but if we stumble we can ask for and expect forgiveness.

Bible Highlighter · May 29, 2017

ByTheSpirit said:
Which commandment?

There is only one that we need worry about.

Love your neighbor as yourself.

There are more New Testament commands than just one.

There is:

Love God with all your heart, mind, and soul (Matthew 22:36-38)
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (1 John 3:23)
Repent (Acts 17:30)
Do not steal, do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not bear false witness, honor your father and mother (Matthew 19:17-21).
Paul says that what he had written should be regarded as the Lord's commandments (1 Corinthians 14:37).

And there are more NT Commands (of course).

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jimmyjimmy · May 29, 2017

ByTheSpirit said:
To love your neighbor as yourself fulfills the entire law of God.

1 John 4:20

Actually the whole epistle of 1 John talks about this.

So does God demand we obey his COMMAND perfectly... yes he does, but if we stumble we can ask for and expect forgiveness.

What do you think loving your neighbor as yourself entails? Do you imagine that loving your neighbor as yourself is different than the laws it's fulfilling? It's in fact the same thing.

BTW, you left out loving God with all of you heart, soul, mind, and strength.

Bible Highlighter · May 29, 2017

ByTheSpirit said:
To love your neighbor as yourself fulfills the entire law of God.

1 John 4:20

Actually the whole epistle of 1 John talks about this.

So does God demand we obey his COMMAND perfectly... yes he does, but if we stumble we can ask for and expect forgiveness.

It fulfills the Old Law. Not the New Law.
The two greatest commands is at the heart of all of God's laws, but if I just said, "Love your neighbor" and left it at that, then that would not be a proper biblical way of knowing how to love according to God's word. God put commands in the New Testament for a reason. Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments (Plural). Jesus did not just say for us to obey the two and then forget everything else. That is not what He was saying. If you were to write down everything that sounds like a command in the New Testament, you would have a rather very large list. Surely God does not want you to ignore such commands. For example: Matthew 25 sounds pretty serious to me. To not know about this chapter and to love people in how I would define it (which would run contrary to Matthew 25) would not be a true and Biblical way in how to love.

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Bible Highlighter · May 29, 2017

jimmyjimmy said:
What do you think loving your neighbor as yourself entails?

Surely we would want them to know about the gospel.
Surely we would want to do good unto them and to pray for them and to be kind and loving with them (in everything we do). We should be giving in some way if possible or if the opportunity presents itself. Love. Love them with more than just our words.

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ByTheSpirit · May 29, 2017

jimmyjimmy said:
What do you think loving your neighbor as yourself entails? Do you imagine that loving your neighbor as yourself is different than the laws it's fulfilling? It's in fact the same thing.

Loving your neighbor is to "walk as Jesus walked" 1 John 2:6

It doesn't have to be complicated

jimmyjimmy · May 29, 2017

ByTheSpirit said:
Loving your neighbor is to "walk as Jesus walked" 1 John 2:6

It doesn't have to be complicated

Wasn't Jesus perfect?

ByTheSpirit · May 29, 2017

Jason0047 said:
It fulfills the Old Law. Not the New Law.
The two greatest commands is at the heart of all of God's laws, but if I just said, "Love your neighbor" and left it at that, then that would not be a proper biblical way of knowing how to love according to God's word. God put commands in the New Testament for a reason. Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments (Plural). Jesus did not just say for us to obey the two and then forget everything else. That is not what He was saying. If you were to write down everything that sounds like a command in the New Testament, you would have a rather very large list. Surely God does not want you to ignore such commands. For example: Matthew 25 sounds pretty serious to me. To not know about this chapter and to love people in how I would define it (which would run contrary to Matthew 25) would not be a true and Biblical way in how to love.

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God didn't replace the Mosaic Law with a new one. All those "commands" you refer to in the New Testament are just manifestations of the one command, the greatest command, Love your neighbor as yourself.

Why?

Love fulfills the entire law Romans 13:10

To love your neighbor shows that you love God 1 John 2:3-8, 1 John 5:2-3

And if you do not love your neighbor you cannot love God 1 John 4:20

It really is simple. No need to overthink it.

ByTheSpirit · May 29, 2017

jimmyjimmy said:
Wasn't Jesus perfect?

Did I say he wasn't?

Bible Highlighter · May 29, 2017

ByTheSpirit said:
God didn't replace the Mosaic Law with a new one. All those "commands" you refer to in the New Testament are just manifestations of the one command, the greatest command, Love your neighbor as yourself.

Why?

Love fulfills the entire law Romans 13:10

To love your neighbor shows that you love God 1 John 2:3-8, 1 John 5:2-3

And if you do not love your neighbor you cannot love God 1 John 4:20

It really is simple. No need to overthink it.

The Mosaic Law is no longer in existence; And to say that there is no Law or commands for believers today under the New Testament would be to be to read the NT with a blind fold on.

#1. Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.
#2. The temple veil was torn from top to bottom with Christ's death. This means that the laws on animal sacrifices are no longer acceptable. The priesthood is no more. Jesus is now our passover Lamb and sacrifice. Jesus is now our priest who intercedes on our behalf.
#3. Jesus says that we are no longer to render an eye for an eye but we are now to turn the other cheek.
#4. Paul says that we are not to judge according to Sabbaths and some regard all days alike in regards to Sabbath keeping (See Romans 14 and Colossians 2). In the OT, you could be stoned for not keeping the Saturday Sabbath. Do you believe in stoning others for not keeping the Sabbath still?
#5. Peter was told by God to eat unclean animals (Which is a violation of OT Law).

Even the moral laws that have carried over from the OT into the New like "do not commit adultery", etc. are not attached with death penalties anymore if they are not obeyed.

So yeah. To say the Law has not changed is simply not true.

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Kenny'sID · May 29, 2017

DeerGlow said:
If you break a number of rules or sin too often like me though, I have to question if I'm saved. It's not earning my salvation it's can a saved person act like this?

Hang in there with that, you're on the right track.

There is more than one list of sins in the new testament that will not allow us to see the Kingdom of God. Just the sin of not taking care of the poor will do that.

Keep the commandments, and Christs commandments that cover those and more, until we fail, then ask forgiveness and get back on track, it's not that hard to do if we really want to. If we are sincere we'll be forgiven, but if we fall, sin perpetually, stop caring, and don't get back to God before we die, or he returns, we got a serious problem.

Reformationist · May 29, 2017

So, with respect to the OP, does God demand perfect obedience?

jimmyjimmy · May 29, 2017

ByTheSpirit said:
Did I say he wasn't?

No, but you said love one's neighbor as himself was as easy as falling out bed, essentially. You that we just to walk like Jesus, as if there something one could do.

Bible Highlighter · May 29, 2017

Reformationist said:
So, with respect to the OP, does God demand perfect obedience?

Yes. But perfect obedience is not a salvation issue even though it is the goal of our Sanctifcation in this life. However... if you do not agree with striving to be perfect (Which is the goal of our Sanctification) or if you think you can sin and still be saved on some level, then there is a serious problem. It would be going against God's holiness as taught in Scripture; And that never ends well for anyone.

Jesus says be ye perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect.
God says be ye holy because I am holy.
Jesus says, "The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master."

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jimmyjimmy · May 29, 2017

ByTheSpirit said:
God didn't replace the Mosaic Law with a new one.

No, according to Him, He summed up the Mosaic Law. The law and prophets, actually

Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Perfection or no?

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Come Lord Jesus

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Come Lord Jesus

Come Lord Jesus

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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