• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Perfection or no?

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Sort by date Sort by votes

rjs330

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2015
28,785
9,292
65
✟439,863.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal

Yes! And Hebrews says this.

He says above, You didn’t want and you weren’t pleased with a sacrifice or an offering or with entirely burned offerings or a purification offering, which are offered because the Law requires them.Then he said, Look, I’ve come to do your will. He puts an end to the first to establish the second.We have been made holy by God’s will through the offering of Jesus Christ’s body once for all.Every priest stands every day serving and offering the same sacrifices over and over, sacrifices that can never take away sins.But when this priest offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, he sat down at the right side of God.Since then, he’s waiting until his enemies are made into a footstool for his feet,because he perfected the people who are being made holy with one offering for all time. - Hebrews 10:8-14 Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 10:8-14 - Common English Bible

He perfected us who are being made holy. Now Hebrews 10 goes on to address wilfull sin. But if you notice it is in the realm on continuing in wilfull sin. Jason and those like him don't understand that. Their doctrine is based upon a single wilfull sin drops you out of abiding in Christ and and therefore losing your salvation. They have real difficulty being able to put grace, sanctification, and the verses I quoted in Hebrews together with the perfection demand.

Jason is correct about not justifying or excusing sin. But he has a difficult time reconciling how Christ makes us righteous and Holy with sinning as a believer. He struggles with the fact that single sins or momentary failings don't keep us out of salvation, but that continual perpetual sin can and will.
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,818
✟368,235.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
show me that there is even such a thing as willful sin? Are you making this up as you go along?

Sin is sin.
 
Reactions: Dan61861
Upvote 0
S

sparow

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2014
2,737
452
86
✟570,419.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single


The word God is like Prince, Lord and king; the Bible tells us that the word or spokesperson for God created the heavens and the earth and Israel, and as such is called Father, and the word is the father of Jesus; I have no reason to believe Jesus was immortal until He was raised from the dead; now He is the King of the kingdom of God and the intermediator between man and the Father; as well as being judge jury and executioner of mankind. The concoction called the Trinity came about in the third centaury and is something Jesus never taught, is at best one guess out of an infinite set of guesses.

There is no correct answer to a silly question.
 
Upvote 0

rjs330

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2015
28,785
9,292
65
✟439,863.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
ToBeLoved said:
show me that there is even such a thing as willful sin? Are you making this up as you go along?

Sin is sin.
Click to expand...

As a believer all sin is willful sin. The Bible says we are no longer slaves to sin, that we are new creatures, that the HS convicts us, that we are the temple of the HS. I could go on. Whenever we sin we are doing it willfully and not by accident. The real problem is if we do it continually. With the HS convicting us and the bible teaching us we know better. If we continually walk in sin then we are in deep trouble.
 
Upvote 0

Neogaia777

Old Soul
Site Supporter
Oct 10, 2011
24,719
5,560
46
Oregon
✟1,105,655.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Celibate
What bout when your sin, keeps you humble and grounded, and helps to keep things in their proper perspective, gives you compassion, gentleness, meekness, mildness, understanding, ect, ect...

What if you would not be that without it...?

I feel like my sin, is like Paul's thorn in his side, he prayed three times for God to remove and God would not... Even Paul said it was there to keep him humble and from becoming overly exalted, (like the devil and his children), (And I think it was also to keep things in perspective) but it was there to "slap" him from time to time... When he would start to get to high off the gifts God was giving him...

I given up on trying to tackle the sin on my own, for now, and am asking God to remove it, if it be his will...

God Bless!

Peace,

God Bless!
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,818
✟368,235.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
There is no such thing as willful sin vs. non-willful sin. That is a thing that people put in there to try to make God like us, but really He is not like us. And there is only sin to God.

Now God does look at our hearts and motivations, but that is not this willful sin thing that does not exist.
 
Upvote 0

rjs330

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2015
28,785
9,292
65
✟439,863.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
It is always his will to be rid of your sin. It's called sanctification. You are a child of God and have Christ in you. You are better than your sin. Your are better than that. When you are tempted, quote a scripture that says you are free from sin and speak to yourself saying "I am better than that.". Because you are.
 
Reactions: Neogaia777
Upvote 0

rjs330

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2015
28,785
9,292
65
✟439,863.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal

Actually that is not true

It's just a matter of semantics really. Yes sin is sin. The word willful simply is a word used to describe that Christians don't accidentally sin. We are dead to sin.

So what are we going to say? Should we continue sinning so grace will multiply?Absolutely not! All of us died to sin. How can we still live in it?Or don’t you know that all who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?Therefore, we were buried together with him through baptism into his death, so that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too can walk in newness of life.If we were united together in a death like his, we will also be united together in a resurrection like his.This is what we know: the person that we used to be was crucified with him in order to get rid of the corpse that had been controlled by sin. That way we wouldn’t be slaves to sin anymore,because a person who has died has been freed from sin’s power.But if we died with Christ, we have faith that we will also live with him.We know that Christ has been raised from the dead and he will never die again. Death no longer has power over him.He died to sin once and for all with his death, but he lives for God with his life.In the same way, you also should consider yourselves dead to sin but alive for God in Christ Jesus.So then, don’t let sin rule your body, so that you do what it wants. - Romans 6:1-12 Bible Gateway passage: Romans 6:1-12 - Common English Bible

You see here we are dead to sin. Look what Paul says "Don't let sin rule in your body." We have a choice. If we did not then this statement would not be valid.

The Bible is full of these types of admonitions. And full.of these encouragements to let us know we are not bound to sin. We wrestle with it, we are tempted by it and we fail and give in. But it is wilfull when we do. We are not slaves like the unbeliever. Even James points this out on the other end when he says that it is sin when we know the right thing to do and don't do it. You see? We KNOW and yet we choose not to do the right thing. So sin to us is wilfull because we KNOW we are not supposed to do that but do it anyway. Or we KNOW we are supposed to do something and don't anyway. That is what we mean by willful sin.

The unbeliever has no choice, but we do. If we know that we are not supposed to do something but don't anyway is that not willful? If we know we are supposed to do something but don't is that not a wilfull choice? Yes it is. That what we mean.
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,818
✟368,235.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
rjs330 said:
Actually that is not true
It's just a matter of semantics really. Yes sin is sin. The word willful simply is a word used to describe that Christians don't accidentally sin. We are dead to sin.
Click to expand...
God never designated two kinds of sin. Willful is man's word to humanize God into doing what they think is right. Willful sin does not exist.

God designated one. You either sin or you dont sin.

People just take issue that a bunch of people are going to heaven. Probably many who they think are not quite as good at not sinning. But God made the rules and no man can change them, so it's time to know that..

You don't think that each of us lies to themselves about whether something was willful or not? The Bible says that the heart is wicked above all things, who can know it. God knows us. He knows that we protect ourselves against what we do not want to know or deal with.

Mankind convinces themselves of many things they want to believe. We do it every day. This willful sin thing is made up.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

rjs330

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2015
28,785
9,292
65
✟439,863.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal

So what do you call choosing to sin? Is that wilfull or not. And I don't think it has anything to do with humanizing God. I don't get that.

Do you choose to to sin? If you do is that not wilfull sinning?
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,818
✟368,235.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
rjs330 said:
So what do you call choosing to sin? Is that wilfull or not. And I don't think it has anything to do with humanizing God. I don't get that.

Do you choose to to sin? If you do is that not wilfull sinning?
Click to expand...
I don't call it anything but sin. Because God already knows all about me and my motivations, so God knows it and He is the One I am accountable to.

I don't hold myself accountable to anyone but God ultimately for the things of God, whether good or bad, I guess. I do take sin and God's Word very seriously though.
 
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

I
Leviticus 20, Charlie Kirk, and Homosexuality
Replies
14
Views
670
General Politics
Lukaris
Comparing Israel and the Church
Replies
10
Views
737
General Theology
Dan Perez
D
Do You Know Him in Truth?
Replies
0
Views
255
Daily Devotionals
Christsfreeservant
Fearful
Replies
20
Views
819
General Theology
Xeno.of.athens
A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION
Replies
6
Views
442
Bibliology & Hermeneutics
WordSword
Menu
Log in
Register