PERFECTION NOW

[GodsGrace101]

The concept of Entire Sanctification is something that the Nazarene and other holiness churches have changed their definition on many times. Today's definition which in my opinion is the more biblical one is that when someone has become born again and is saved they then begin the gradual process of the Holy Spirit sanctifying them or becoming more mature in love and motivation while also gradually getting rid of the sin nature. While perfection can never be achieved in this life it is the objective of every believer to become as holy as possible and to keep growing in grace. Personally I think a more appropriate term should be progressive sanctification because one will not ever encounter or achieve entire sanctification until after we die a physical death and our spiritual body then goes to Heaven where we really will be perfect in every aspect because of what Jesus did by dying for us on the cross and freeing us from the penalty of sin.

I guess sanctification can be said to be progressive.
Catholics do call it progressive justification.

But sanctification just simply means what you've stated.....being set aside for God's use..or works for God. Works has become a bad word. So since the use lasts our whole life, it should suffice, but maybe the word progressive would help to explain it better.

I am brought to the conclusion,however, that maybe our churches don't even have theology correct.
How could theology change?
If JWesley believed in eradication of the sin nature...why have we changed our mind? Has it become to difficult for us to even consider this?

OTOH, I do some studying with a friar (?) at a sanctuary and he always says that everyone sins and always will. Which is what makes sense to me...even though, of course, it will be cut down considerably both due to the fact that we become more aware of sin...and we desire to sin less.

Thanks for a good post.

 

[GodsGrace101]

This is true. Another interesting thing that I've always found interesting about Wesleyan's is that they believe that when someone has achieved salvation they can lose it but that a Christian can reach the point in their life where they are so in tune with God and sanctified that they will never be tempted to fall away.

What a great concept, which I've never considered.

I DO believe we can "lose" our salvation because the N.T. says we can.

Then some say it's impossible to know God and abandon Him...so they say the person was never really saved to begin with. Which totally goes against Luke 8:13 and other verses.

Perhaps it's as you state...one being so in tune with God that abandoning Him is not even thinkable.
Yes, this is good reasoning.

I've known God about 40 years and I can't imagine living without Him in my life. And yet, I do see some persons leaving Him.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Sorry for spamming this thread but to add more content to this discussion a very wise and prominent UMC pastor and member of this forum called GraceSeeker once gave this definition of Entire Sanctification a few years back:

Yes, some of this is terminology.

For myself, the overarching concept is that of sanctification -- being set aside for God's purposes. Not just people, but even vessels are sanctified. With respect to people, sanctification is the purpose of life -- i.e. that we are to be set aside for God's purposes. I believe in that sense of the word that Adam and Eve were sanctified, and yet they fell. I believe this is because sanctification never negates our freedom.

However, when one is entirely sanctified, then it isn't just one's life, but one's will that is also set aside for God's purposes. We pray as Jesus prayed (and actually mean it when we pray as he taught us to pray), "let thy will be done." Only when one's will set apart for God's purposes do I understand us to be entirely sanctified. So, according to my terminology, entire sanctification is the result of the process of sanctification, not the process itself.

And the beginning of that process, the point of conversion/new birth, in which one returned one's life back to God and allowed it to be used for his purposes again, would be the initial moment of the beginning of that sanctification process.

One of the more interesting things that I have observed in conversation with other Christians. Among those OSAS Baptists who seek conversation to discuss and better understand rather than to argue and convert me to their way of understanding, that when we get to talking about where our ideas about sanctification and OSAS understanding come from, that we are often really meaning the same thing, but using vastly different language to say it. Sadly, for many, theological language has become an impediment rather than a means to better understanding. But among my OSAS friends, what they mean is that if one has truly turned one's life over to God, then God's will is that one should never even feel the desire to sin and thus mutes those desires so that we never even will to do that which leads one to walk away from one's salvation. Very close to what I was trying to say about entire sanctification.

I understand your point....but to most entire sanctification will mean perfection.

And yes, theological language can certainly be an impediment. Each church has their own definition of words.

Again, an interesting post...

 

[GodsGrace101]

Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch--as you really are.—1 Cor. 5:7

That was the one that popped into my head. Paul makes even stronger statements in Colossians 2, for ex:

10And you have been made complete in Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority.

11In Him you were also circumcised in the putting off of your sinful nature, with the circumcision performed by Christ and not by human hands. 12And having been buried with Him in baptism, you were raised with Him through your faith in the power of God, who raised Him from the dead.

13When you were dead in your trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our trespasses,14having canceled the debt ascribed to us in the decrees that stood against us. He took it away, nailing it to the cross! 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross."

How are these things done by God going to be undone? Who is going to asterisk His work and make Him out to be a liar?

The above IS our position. The position IS the free gift of God. Paul always lays down the foundation of our secure position and THEN urges us to a worthy walk. Many reverse this, leading to instability in the walk.

That’s my take away. Have a blessed day!

I found this which is interesting and might be what you're speaking about:

6. Positional Truth | Bible.org

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

I found this which is interesting and might be what you're speaking about:

6. Positional Truth | Bible.org

That seems pretty close. Thanks!

 

[Anto9us]

1 John 1:6-8