People who eat a vegetarian diet live longer than those who eat meat.

[tall73]

Regarding the Priests: They were doing a special ceremony under the direction of God himself. They ate only clean meats, and they lived in a world that had no industrial pollutants and man made hormones, plus no animals would be sacrificed or eaten that were sick or blemished. Moreover, God himself must have empowered them with His divine power to overcome the large amounts of clean meats that the Priests consumed.

You give some qualifiers:

First: They only ate clean meats.

Agreed. They only ate clean meats. However, Ellen White says flesh foods enfeeble spiritually. She doesn't say only unclean meats. Please stop trying to shift the goalposts.

Second: they lived in a world that had no industrial pollutants and man made hormones plus no animals would be sacrificed or eaten that were sick or blemished.

Now certainly I would agree that industrial pollutants cause greater issues today. And we know from Ellen White's writings that she too saw things getting worse over time in regards to meat. However, Ellen White portrayed eating of flesh food negatively even in her discussion of biblical accounts. So it is not limited just to modern factors. And vegetables too suffer from pesticides, pollution, etc.


You must not have been convinced by your qualifiers either, because you go on to say God would have to use divine power to overcome the impact of so much meat eating.

So please:

A. Show the biblical evidence of the enfeebling effect.

B. Show the biblical evidence that God shielded them from this.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Sorry for calling you a dude. I usually make that mistake in reverse of that. Interesting post. Not so sure i agree with the last part as the "brother" of jesus were not necessarily what we call brothers today. Could have been cousins by the greek word used for brothers. That word translates :brother, sister,cousin and reletive But interesting all the same.

No problem in the gender thing

Well, that is a false argument made up to support the "Mary is a perpetual virgin" myth and that myth is totally blown out by the fact that if Joseph had a son before Jesus' birth by another wife, then the firstborn son of Joseph would inherit the throne of David, and Jesus, by His birthright as son of Joseph would have had no right to the throne. Mary, as a female, could convey no right to the throne of David and indeed, both genealogies of the Word show Joseph back to David through his natural father, Jacob, and his by law father, Heli.

 

[GladiatorforGod]

Truly your bible must be in tatters on the floor from all the exploding it does.

It is Mark the evangelist who adds the comment Thus he declared all foods clean. Not one of the Pharisees to whom you attribute the food restrictions allegedly abolished.

And what food rules did the Pharisees have that were not in the Law of Moses?

Can you name any?

The truth is that your words explode nothing. Seventh Day Adventism just has rules and regulations made by a woman and some men in the 19th century.

Here is a list of man made dietary laws of Pharisees:

1. No Jew was permitted to sit at the same table with a Gentile, or to eat with him under any circumstances.

2. If an animal were set apart to be slaughtered for Gentile use, it was permissible to kill the animal for Jewish use. But if the animal had passed into the hands of the Gentile, or had been touched by him, the Jew must neither touch nor eat the animal under any consideration.

3. If the Jew were to plant seed in his field for his own personal use, if the seed had been handled by a Gentile, it was unlawful to be used.

4. If a cow were milked by a Gentile, her milk must not be drank by any Jew; the milk was unclean, because it had been handled by an unclean man.

5. If the Gentiles lived in the land where the Jews were, any bread they baked, or oil they prepared, or any other food they handled, might be sold to the Gentiles; but it must not be sold to the Jews.

6. There was nothing, absolutely nothing, that a Gentile prepared personally for food, raised in his own garden, or touched with his own hands, that a Pharisee was permitted either to touch, taste, or handle.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Here is a list of man made dietary laws of Pharisees:

1. No Jew was permitted to sit at the same table with a Gentile, or to eat with him under any circumstances.

2. If an animal were set apart to be slaughtered for Gentile use, it was permissible to kill the animal for Jewish use. But if the animal had passed into the hands of the Gentile, or had been touched by him, the Jew must neither touch nor eat the animal under any consideration.

3. If the Jew were to plant seed in his field for his own personal use, if the seed had been handled by a Gentile, it was unlawful to be used.

4. If a cow were milked by a Gentile, her milk must not be drank by any Jew; the milk was unclean, because it had been handled by an unclean man.

5. If the Gentiles lived in the land where the Jews were, any bread they baked, or oil they prepared, or any other food they handled, might be sold to the Gentiles; but it must not be sold to the Jews.

6. There was nothing, absolutely nothing, that a Gentile prepared personally for food, raised in his own garden, or touched with his own hands, that a Pharisee was permitted either to touch, taste, or handle.

None of the rules you've provided are dietary rules. They are all rules about separation from gentiles.

The foods in question (seeds, vegetables, milk) were all "clean" as far as dietary law went. It was being contaminated by a gentile that was the issue.

Mind you, the Pharisees were very zealous to separate themselves from gentiles.

Cheers.

 

[GladiatorforGod]

You give some qualifiers:

First: They only ate clean meats.

Agreed. They only ate clean meats. However, Ellen White says flesh foods enfeeble spiritually. She doesn't say only unclean meats. Please stop trying to shift the goalposts.

You are the one shifting the goalposts, as I never quoted EGW, you did.

Second: they lived in a world that had no industrial pollutants and man made hormones plus no animals would be sacrificed or eaten that were sick or blemished.

Now certainly I would agree that industrial pollutants cause greater issues today. And we know from Ellen White's writings that she too saw things getting worse over time in regards to meat. However, Ellen White portrayed eating of flesh food negatively even in her discussion of biblical accounts. So it is not limited just to modern factors. And vegetables too suffer from pesticides, pollution, etc.

Obviously, God super naturally preserved the health of the Priests. Plus, the meats were clean animals in good health. As a whole that not the case globally, when it comes to meats.

You must not have been convinced by your qualifiers either, because you go on to say God would have to use divine power to overcome the impact of so much meat eating.

So please:

A. Show the biblical evidence of the enfeebling effect.

B. Show the biblical evidence that God shielded them from this.

The evidence is in the Bible, that is what God outlined to Moses, do you think God doomed the Priests serving in the Sanctuary to poor health. They were fraction of the 1 million Israelites who mostly ate vegetarian Manna for 40 years, and were in excellent health. That fact alone, explodes your premise, because when they rebelled and God send Quails, they got sick.

Numbers 11:31-34

31Now a wind went out from the Lord and drove quail in from the sea. It scattered them up to two cubitsb deep all around the camp, as far as a day’s walk in any direction. 32All that day and night and all the next day the people went out and gathered quail. No one gathered less than ten homers.c Then they spread them out all around the camp. 33But while the meat was still between their teeth and before it could be consumed, the anger of the Lord burned against the people, and he struck them with a severe plague. 34Therefore the place was named Kibroth Hattaavah, because there they buried the people who had craved other food."

 

[GladiatorforGod]

None of the rules you've provided are dietary rules. They are all rules about separation from gentiles.

The foods in question (seeds, vegetables, milk) were all "clean" as far as dietary law went. It was being contaminated by a gentile that was the issue.

Mind you, the Pharisees were very zealous to separate themselves from gentiles.

Cheers.

Jesus rebuked the Pharisees in Matthew 15 based on the a dietary law related to man made ceremonial hand washing, that Pharisees did before they ate biblically clean food, in case Gentiles had touched it and made it "unclean" according the "laws of the Pharisees." That is why Jesus added this rebuke:

Matthew 15:1-9

1Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2“Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”

3Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’a and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’b 5But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

8“ ‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

...

Now certainly I would agree that industrial pollutants cause greater issues today. And we know from Ellen White's writings that she too saw things getting worse over time in regards to meat. However, Ellen White portrayed eating of flesh food negatively even in her discussion of biblical accounts. So it is not limited just to modern factors. And vegetables too suffer from pesticides, pollution, etc.
...

You have made a score:

And vegetables too suffer from pesticides, pollution, etc.

Also, Abel was a keeper of sheep. Abel kept sheep for
milk
cheese
yogurt
meat to eat
wool to spin
and skins for tunics.

And food is clean/sanctified/holy if God be thanked for it and in the last days, doctrines of demons forbid eating meats which God has made for us to eat, so last days pollutants do not make food unclean for consuming if one Thank God and always bless it in His name for His provisions.

 

[tall73]

The evidence is in the Bible, that is what God outlined to Moses, do you think God doomed the Priests serving in the Sanctuary to poor health.

You have not indicated that meat spiritually enfeebles from the Scripture to start with. That was what was asked for. The issue is not health but that Ellen White says it spiritually and morally enfeebles. You want to keep moving the goal.

And no, I do not believe God intended them to be unhealthy. Because I do not think what they were eating was unhealthy.

Now please demonstrate from the Scriptures that

a. meat enfeebled spiritually

b. that God protected them from this impact of meat eating.

 

[tall73]

They were fraction of the 1 million Israelites who mostly ate vegetarian Manna for 40 years, and were in excellent health.

you completely failed to present the explanation of why Jesus multiplied FISH and bread, or why He cooked fish for His disciples, or why He ate the passover, or why He indicated a fish was a good gift for a father to give to a son.

Did you just not see it again?

You also failed to address why God gave a list of clean MEATS if He wanted them to eat only vegetables.

Covenant obedience was what brought freedom from disease according to the Scriptures.

 

[tall73]

They were fraction of the 1 million Israelites who mostly ate vegetarian Manna for 40 years, and were in excellent health. That fact alone, explodes your premise, because when they rebelled and God send Quails, they got sick.

Numbers 11:31-34

31Now a wind went out from the Lord and drove quail in from the sea. It scattered them up to two cubitsb deep all around the camp, as far as a day’s walk in any direction. 32All that day and night and all the next day the people went out and gathered quail. No one gathered less than ten homers.c Then they spread them out all around the camp. 33But while the meat was still between their teeth and before it could be consumed, the anger of the Lord burned against the people, and he struck them with a severe plague. 34Therefore the place was named Kibroth Hattaavah, because there they buried the people who had craved other food."

Gladiator, you do see that the text says that He was angry and sent a plague, correct?

It was not eating the meat that was the problem, the text says it was not even consumed yet. It was their rebellion against God's provision that was the problem.



Note that earlier when manna was first given God also provided quail for them to eat, and no curse was administered:

Exo 16:12 "I have heard the grumbling of the people of Israel. Say to them, 'At twilight you shall eat meat, and in the morning you shall be filled with bread. Then you shall know that I am the LORD your God.'"
Exo 16:13 In the evening quail came up and covered the camp, and in the morning dew lay around the camp.
Exo 16:14 And when the dew had gone up, there was on the face of the wilderness a fine, flake-like thing, fine as frost on the ground.

By the way, the same God told them to eat the passover as well. Why did He do that if it enfeebled them?


Now please provide the scriptures that show meat eating spiritually enfeebles.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Here is a list of man made dietary laws of Pharisees:

1. No Jew was permitted to sit at the same table with a Gentile, or to eat with him under any circumstances.

2. If an animal were set apart to be slaughtered for Gentile use, it was permissible to kill the animal for Jewish use. But if the animal had passed into the hands of the Gentile, or had been touched by him, the Jew must neither touch nor eat the animal under any consideration.

3. If the Jew were to plant seed in his field for his own personal use, if the seed had been handled by a Gentile, it was unlawful to be used.

4. If a cow were milked by a Gentile, her milk must not be drank by any Jew; the milk was unclean, because it had been handled by an unclean man.

5. If the Gentiles lived in the land where the Jews were, any bread they baked, or oil they prepared, or any other food they handled, might be sold to the Gentiles; but it must not be sold to the Jews.

6. There was nothing, absolutely nothing, that a Gentile prepared personally for food, raised in his own garden, or touched with his own hands, that a Pharisee was permitted either to touch, taste, or handle.

None of the rules you've provided are dietary rules. They are all rules about separation from gentiles.

The foods in question (seeds, vegetables, milk) were all "clean" as far as dietary law went. It was being contaminated by a gentile that was the issue.

Mind you, the Pharisees were very zealous to separate themselves from gentiles.

Cheers.

Jesus rebuked the Pharisees in Matthew 15 based on the a dietary law related to man made ceremonial hand washing, that Pharisees did before they ate biblically clean food, in case Gentiles had touched it and made it "unclean" according the "laws of the Pharisees." That is why Jesus added this rebuke:

Matthew 15:1-9

1Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2“Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”

3Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’a and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’b 5But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

8“ ‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.

Still no dietary rules.

Mind you, the point I wanted to make is proved.

Mark 7:18-19 teaches that all foods are clean for Christians.

Seventh Day Adventism just has rules and regulations made by a woman and some men in the 19th century.

Cheers

 

[GladiatorforGod]

Still no dietary rules.

Mind you, the point I wanted to make is proved.

Mark 7:18-19 teaches that all foods are clean for Christians.

Seventh Day Adventism just has rules and regulations made by a woman and some men in the 19th century.

Cheers

You have only proved that you don't even understand the basis of the argument. The issue in question was NOT about unclean meats, since Jesus never ate unclean meats. If He had eaten unclean meats the Pharisees would have accused Jesus and the disciples of that, but they did not. The issue that the Pharisees had with Jesus and the disciples, was with not participating in ceremonial hand washing before they ate clean meats. That is why I quoted several dietary laws of the Pharisees that has a similar theme, namely, man made dietary laws relating to Gentiles and foods.

 

[Rev Randy]

No problem in the gender thing

Well, that is a false argument made up to support the "Mary is a perpetual virgin" myth and that myth is totally blown out by the fact that if Joseph had a son before Jesus' birth by another wife, then the firstborn son of Joseph would inherit the throne of David, and Jesus, by His birthright as son of Joseph would have had no right to the throne. Mary, as a female, could convey no right to the throne of David and indeed, both genealogies of the Word show Joseph back to David through his natural father, Jacob, and his by law father, Heli.

It's not the doctrine being supported. It's simple Greek. This is the words used:
ἀδελφός. It means .....well google translate it and you'll see it means something completely different in modern greek but it means in the Greek used:# 80 Greek in the Strongs
1) a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother
2) having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman
3) any fellow or man
4) a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection
5) an associate in employment or office
6) brethren in Christ
a) his brothers by blood
b) all men
c) apostles
d) Christians, as those who are exalted to the same heavenly place

Nope, I wasn't trying to show my doctrine but showing what it can mean. Now if you google translate it it means "sister"

 

[Thekla]

It's not the doctrine being supported. It's simple Greek. This is the words used:
ἀδελφός. It means .....well google translate it and you'll see it means something completely different in modern greek but it means in the Greek used:# 80 Greek in the Strongs
1) a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother
2) having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman
3) any fellow or man
4) a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection
5) an associate in employment or office
6) brethren in Christ
a) his brothers by blood
b) all men
c) apostles
d) Christians, as those who are exalted to the same heavenly place

Nope, I wasn't trying to show my doctrine but showing what it can mean. Now if you google translate it it means "sister"

if I can add (as per usage in the OT,LXX, and secular Greek writings), uncle/nephew, cousin/s, same tribe (as in 2), step-sibling (as in 1), spouse, kindred, possibly in-law (Mary and her "sister" Mary, Gospel of John).

Ie, it's a pretty general term; and agreed, it's just the way the word is (ie doctrine has nothing to do with the way the word has been used and its broad definition for thousands of years, even before the time of the Gospel writing).

Then, I'll be off

(good to 'see' you 'round about ...)

 

[yeshuasavedme]

It's not the doctrine being supported. It's simple Greek. This is the words used:
ἀδελφός. It means .....well google translate it and you'll see it means something completely different in modern greek but it means in the Greek used:# 80 Greek in the Strongs
1) a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother
2) having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman
3) any fellow or man
4) a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection
5) an associate in employment or office
6) brethren in Christ
a) his brothers by blood
b) all men
c) apostles
d) Christians, as those who are exalted to the same heavenly place

Nope, I wasn't trying to show my doctrine but showing what it can mean. Now if you google translate it it means "sister"

The NT context is clear and all connections of the Scriptures defining his relations and other relations are of a piece.
The Word is clear when dealing with intimate family relationships that there were brothers -not cousins- called by Jesus to be His disciples, and His 1st cousin once removed, John, was his forerunner -a kinsman- but they did not have a close relationship.
Jesus was esp concerned to appear to His womb brothers who did not believe in Him as Messiah until after His resurrection.

Jesus was the elder brother who had the inheritance of the throne of David, being Joseph's legal firstborn heir. If Joseph had any sons before Jesus was born, then the firstborn of them would inherit the throne of David through Joseph....the genealogies are given of Joseph through his natural father, Jacob, and his legal father, Heli, who died before his wife bore him children, so Jacob married her and they had Joseph, by law the son of Heli who received Heli's name and inheritance and through whom he passed the inheritance of the throne of David to Jesus, his legal son.

Mark was the nephew of Barnabas and Barnabas was the brother of Mark's mother.

James and John -brothers of one father
Jude and James Simon and Jesus -brothers of one womb, with James and John being brothers of one father and one mother
Andrew and Peter -brothers of one father who is named.

Mary, Martha were sisters and Lazarus was their brother.

Jesus had brothers and sisters younger than he, at least 6 of them. His brothers and sisters were the children of Joseph, and of Mary:

Mar 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
Mat 12:46
While he yet talked to the people, behold, [his] mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

Jesus' brothers did not believe in Him until after the resurrection:

John 7:7 After these things Jesus was walking in Galilee, for He was unwilling to walk in Judea because the Jews were seeking to kill Him. 2 Now the feast of the Jews, the Feast of Booths, was near. 3 Therefore His brothers said to Him, “Leave here and go into Judea, so that Your disciples also may see Your works which You are doing. 4 For no one does anything in secret [a]when he himself seeks to be known publicly. If You do these things, show Yourself to the world.” 5 For not even His brothers were believing in Him. 6 So Jesus *said to them, “My time is not yet here, but your time is always opportune. 7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it, that its deeds are evil. 8 Go up to the feast yourselves; I do not go up to this feast because My time has not yet fully come.” 9 Having said these things to them, He stayed in Galilee.
10 But when His brothers had gone up to the feast, then He Himself also went up, not publicly, but as if, in secret.

Mat 4:21 And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James [the son] of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them.
Mat 4:18
And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.

Jhn 11:19 And many of the Jews came to Martha and Mary, to comfort them concerning their brother.

Col 4:10 Aristarchus my fellowprisoner saluteth you, and Marcus, sister's son to Barnabas, (touching whom ye received commandments: if he come unto you, receive him

 

[GladiatorforGod]

Getting this thread back to the topic in question, this link is very insightful regarding health and longevity.

Longevity, The Secrets of Long Life - National Geographic Magazine

 

[Rev Randy]

Getting this thread back to the topic in question, this link is very insightful regarding health and longevity.

Longevity, The Secrets of Long Life - National Geographic Magazine

Sorry for getting off topic. My mind wanders.

 

[sunlover1]

Getting this thread back to the topic in question, this link is very insightful regarding health and longevity.

Longevity, The Secrets of Long Life - National Geographic Magazine

Sorry if this has already been asked, but what do you think about just eating
whatever's put in front of you ? (after praying over it, that is)

 

[GladiatorforGod]

Sorry if this has already been asked, but what do you think about just eating
whatever's put in front of you ? (after praying over it, that is)

Praying over swines flesh will not make it "clean" as most swine is infested with the Trichinella spiralis, which is something you don't want to have in your body. That is why Jesus told Moses what meats were clean and what is unclean for humans to eat. He that has an ear, let him hear.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichinosis

 

[Rev Randy]

Praying over swines flesh will not make it "clean" as most swine is infested with the Trichinella spiralis, which is something you don't want to have in your body. That is why Jesus told Moses what meats were clean and what is unclean for humans to eat. He that has an ear, let him hear.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichinosis

But does it really matter? (spiritually) Isn't it what leaves the mouth that which defiles us?
If your true point is physical health, I can kinda see your point.