People who eat a vegetarian diet live longer than those who eat meat.

[MoreCoffee]

You are so wrong. God declared swine as being unclean, and medical science has confirmed that most swine are infested with the trichinea parasite, and yet you close your eyes to the truth.

Stop blaming God for your dietary rules.

You're not eating kosher are you?

And even if you were the kosher rules are not God's rules for eating.

Christ declared all foods clean didn't he?

And he said to them, "Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him, since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on?" (Thus he declared all foods clean.) -- RSV Mark 7:18-19​

 

[Ave Maria]

This is very interesting although I'll be honest, I'm not willing to look at an Adventist source for this information. I would strongly prefer a medical source such as WebMD, Centers for Disease Control, etc.

I have considered becoming a Vegan for some time but primarily for health reasons. I have a very strong history of heart disease in my family. My older sister died from a congenital heart defect in which only half of her heart was growing. Its called Hypoplastic Left Heart Syndrome if you want to learn more about it. My other sister who is my youngest sister has a heart murmur. My paternal grandfather has heart disease and has had several strokes. He also has hypertension and diabetes. My dad also has hypertension and diabetes. My paternal grandmother had diabetes and possibly hypertension. In addition to this she had a completely blocked aorta which is one of the major arteries of the body. In fact, it goes directly to the heart. They think she might have had a heart attack but they're not certain. She died in 2011 but not from heart disease.

So as you can see, I have a very strong history of heart disease in my family. I also have a strong history of diabetes in my family which is something else which would be affected by diet. That is why I am considering a Vegan diet.

Another thing that bothers me about eating meat is that I am contributing to factory farms where it has been proven that some really horrific animal cruelty goes on. I really don't want to contribute to that.

That said I do want to say that I see absolutely nothing morally wrong with eating meat. God gave us dominion over the earth and He provided us with animals for our consumption both as food and for clothing and other reasons. Here is the official teaching of the Catholic Church as found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

2417 God entrusted animals to the stewardship of those whom he created in his own image. Hence it is legitimate to use animals for food and clothing. They may be domesticated to help man in his work and leisure. Medical and scientific experimentation on animals is a morally acceptable practice if it remains within reasonable limits and contributes to caring for or saving human lives.

CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2417

 

[Lollerskates]

Gentiles were never given that sign and every male Jew is born under the oath their fathers took at Sinai and under the command God gave to Abraham before that...

I erased the rest because the circumcision issue is a personal issue for me. (I also don't want to argue anymore, it is kind of exhausting.)

Anyway, I was responding to Tall's question, specifically because for me personally there is a strong possibility I may be a blood-born Hebrew. It is something I am researching, and coming closer to an answer to verify it (my family history is highly scattered, and broken.) In that sense, I would still have to make the decision whether circumcision is something that I should do - as an [possible] Hebrew and follower of Christ. This is part of the complexity (for me, personally) that I face, and the issue to which I was responding.

 

[MoreCoffee]

This is very interesting although I'll be honest, I'm not willing to look at an Adventist source for this information. I would strongly prefer a medical source such as WebMD, Centers for Disease Control, etc.

I have considered becoming a Vegan for some time but primarily for health reasons. I have a very strong history of heart disease in my family. My older sister died from a congenital heart defect in which only half of her heart was growing. Its called Hypoplastic Left Heart Syndrome if you want to learn more about it. My other sister who is my youngest sister has a heart murmur. My paternal grandfather has heart disease and has had several strokes. He also has hypertension and diabetes. My dad also has hypertension and diabetes. My paternal grandmother had diabetes and possibly hypertension. In addition to this she had a completely blocked aorta which is one of the major arteries of the body. In fact, it goes directly to the heart. They think she might have had a heart attack but they're not certain. She died in 2011 but not from heart disease.

So as you can see, I have a very strong history of heart disease in my family. I also have a strong history of diabetes in my family which is something else which would be affected by diet. That is why I am considering a Vegan diet.

Another thing that bothers me about eating meat is that I am contributing to factory farms where it has been proven that some really horrific animal cruelty goes on. I really don't want to contribute to that.

That said I do want to say that I see absolutely nothing morally wrong with eating meat. God gave us dominion over the earth and He provided us with animals for our consumption both as food and for clothing and other reasons. Here is the official teaching of the Catholic Church as found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2417

Hear hear!

What you've stated is fair enough.

Diet for health or for consideration of how animals are farmed is all good and reasonable.

Deciding one's diet on the basis of religious rules isn't from the gospel.

Folk can do it if they want. But pushing it at and onto others as if it would be a sin not to follow the religious diet is a sin, I reckon.

 

[XB3LI3V3RX]

Hear hear!

What you've stated is fair enough.

Diet for health or for consideration of how animals are farmed is all good and reasonable.

Deciding one's diet on the basis of religious rules isn't from the gospel.

Folk can do it if they want. But pushing it at and onto others as if it would be a sin not to follow the religious diet is a sin, I reckon.

^^

~<Learn to Follow the Wolves>~

 

[GladiatorforGod]

This is very interesting although I'll be honest, I'm not willing to look at an Adventist source for this information. I would strongly prefer a medical source such as WebMD, Centers for Disease Control, etc.

I have considered becoming a Vegan for some time but primarily for health reasons. I have a very strong history of heart disease in my family. My older sister died from a congenital heart defect in which only half of her heart was growing. Its called Hypoplastic Left Heart Syndrome if you want to learn more about it. My other sister who is my youngest sister has a heart murmur. My paternal grandfather has heart disease and has had several strokes. He also has hypertension and diabetes. My dad also has hypertension and diabetes. My paternal grandmother had diabetes and possibly hypertension. In addition to this she had a completely blocked aorta which is one of the major arteries of the body. In fact, it goes directly to the heart. They think she might have had a heart attack but they're not certain. She died in 2011 but not from heart disease.

So as you can see, I have a very strong history of heart disease in my family. I also have a strong history of diabetes in my family which is something else which would be affected by diet. That is why I am considering a Vegan diet.

Another thing that bothers me about eating meat is that I am contributing to factory farms where it has been proven that some really horrific animal cruelty goes on. I really don't want to contribute to that.

That said I do want to say that I see absolutely nothing morally wrong with eating meat. God gave us dominion over the earth and He provided us with animals for our consumption both as food and for clothing and other reasons. Here is the official teaching of the Catholic Church as found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:



CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2417

Thank you, for your very intelligent and thoughtful comments. Would to God, that more CF members would be as honest as you are. Eating buffaloe wings, large cheese pizzas, fried and barbecued meats have been proven to increase your risk of colon cancer by 3 to 4 times.

 

[tall73]

Eating buffaloes wings, large cheese pizzas, fried and barbecued meats have been proven to increase your risk of colon cancer by 3 to 4 times.

I agree on that.

And...avoiding pertinent questions over and over again has been shown to decrease your credibility in these discussions.

Gladiator, why would God have the priests eat meat if that enfeebled them spiritually?

 

[GladiatorforGod]

Stop blaming God for your dietary rules.

You're not eating kosher are you?

And even if you were the kosher rules are not God's rules for eating.

Christ declared all foods clean didn't he?

And he said to them, "Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him, since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on?" (Thus he declared all foods clean.) -- RSV Mark 7:18-19​

Let me explode your understanding: Jesus and his disciples were not eating unclean meats, the whole topic in Mark was NOT about eating unclean meats, it was simply that Jesus and disciples were not doing the man made ceremonial hand washings before they ate their food. Jesus rebuked the man made laws, but upheld the laws that were written in the OT.

 

[GladiatorforGod]

I agree on that.

And...avoiding pertinent questions over and over again has been shown to decrease your credibility in these discussions.

Gladiator, why would God have the priests eat meat if that enfeebled them spiritually?

I don't avoid any questions. But, I'm not on this forum 24/7. And frankly, so many of the members on CF don't really have any clue as to our what we eat effects our whole being. How is it that you ask me a question, that you already know the answer to? You were an SDA Pastor, you know that the SDA health message is more biblical and more healthy than anything else out there. Even Joel Osteen and Rick Warren are starting to mimic the SDAs.

Regarding the Priests: They were doing a special ceremony under the direction of God himself. They ate only clean meats, and they lived in a world that had no industrial pollutants and man made hormones, plus no animals would be sacrificed or eaten that were sick or blemished. Moreover, God himself must have empowered them with His divine power to overcome the large amounts of clean meats that the Priests consumed. On balance, the masses of the children of Israel at Mana while wandering the desert, and it was meat free.

 

[Lollerskates]

I agree on that.

And...avoiding pertinent questions over and over again has been shown to decrease your credibility in these discussions.

Gladiator, why would God have the priests eat meat if that enfeebled them spiritually?

I still owe you some comments on what you asked me. I haven't forgotten.

 

[MoreCoffee]

You are so wrong. God declared swine as being unclean, and medical science has confirmed that most swine are infested with the trichinea parasite, and yet you close your eyes to the truth.

Stop blaming God for your dietary rules.

You're not eating kosher are you?

And even if you were the kosher rules are not God's rules for eating.

Christ declared all foods clean didn't he?

And he said to them, "Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him, since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on?" (Thus he declared all foods clean.) -- RSV Mark 7:18-19​

Let me explode your understanding: Jesus and his disciples were not eating unclean meats, the whole topic in Mark was NOT about eating unclean meats, it was simply that Jesus and disciples were not doing the man made ceremonial hand washings before they ate their food. Jesus rebuked the man made laws, but upheld the laws that were written in the OT.

Truly your bible must be in tatters on the floor from all the exploding it does.

It is Mark the evangelist who adds the comment Thus he declared all foods clean. Not one of the Pharisees to whom you attribute the food restrictions allegedly abolished.

And what food rules did the Pharisees have that were not in the Law of Moses?

Can you name any?

The truth is that your words explode nothing. Seventh Day Adventism just has rules and regulations made by a woman and some men in the 19th century.

 

[Rev Randy]

I did not deny that Christ was of Judah, I asked you how He had the DNA of Judah? I will give my answer late this evening or tomorrow. Getting read for a Bible study right now and don't have time to re-write the genealogy study.

ysm is incorrect and that video doesn't come close.

DNA was not my point. He had human blood but we have no evidence of Mary's birth tribe. My point was adoption.

 

[Rev Randy]

Thank you, for your very intelligent and thoughtful comments. Would to God, that more CF members would be as honest as you are. Eating buffaloe wings, large cheese pizzas, fried and barbecued meats have been proven to increase your risk of colon cancer by 3 to 4 times.

Now I could get on board with that. Except you keep returning to, God said it's unclean and pushing the sin aspect.
I'm all for anyone desiring to eat healthy if they choose. But I would disagree that meat is not healthy . It depends on the source. I would also be sceptical that vegetarians live longer because they don't eat meat (if they even truly live longer). If they do live longer it could easily be that they do other things (being health conscious) like exercise and whole grains, limited alcohol intake etc.
BTW Buffalo do not have wings nor do they fly.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Now I don't know if yeshuasavedme is correct or not concerning his point of both genealogies being Josephs but it sure seems possible as I've never heard of a biblical or hebrew bloodline following the mother's born genealogy. I do know it was Hebrew custom for a wife to take her husbands name and tribe after marriage.
So please show me the Levite bloodline. I'm willing to learn.

I'm a she....
But I am not the one who wrote the New Testament genealogies as both being the genealogies of Joseph. Jacob begat Joseph, says Matthew, and Joseph was the son of Heli, says Luke, and they were both absolutely 100% correct as they stand. The genealogies are both Joseph's and nothing about Mary.

Jacob begat Joseph and as as his own firstborn son born to his wife who was the barren widow of his half brother, Heli, Joseph was raised as Heli's son with Heli's inheritance according to the law of Kinsman/Redeemer.

That is what Eusebius, 4th century historian, made clear in his "Ecclesiastical History", book 1, chapter 7, page 21, 2nd paragraph 2nd sentence:
"Heli and Jacob were brothers by the same mother. Heli dying childless, Jacob raised up seed to him, having Joseph, according to nature belonging to himself, but by law to Heli. Thus, Joseph was the son of both."

Deut 25:5 "5 “When brothers live together and one of them dies and has no son, the wife of the deceased shall not be married outside the family to a strange man. Her husband’s brother shall go in to her and take her to himself as wife and perform the duty of a husband’s brother to her. 6 It shall be that the firstborn whom she bears shall assume the name of his dead brother, so that his name will not be blotted out from Israel.

Jacob and Heli were of one mother, but of two fathers. Matthat dying after Heli was born, his mother was then free to marry outside of the family since she was not barren. She married Matthan, and they had Jacob.

Mat 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Luk 3:23
And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was [the son] of Heli,
Jeremiah 22:30
"Thus says the LORD, 'Write this man down childless, A man who will not prosper in his days; For no man of his descendants will prosper Sitting on the throne of David Or ruling again in Judah.'"

Matt 1:11
Josiah became the father of *Jeconiah and his brothers, at the time of the deportation to Babylon.

So "Jeconiah is written down as childless" though he had children, not one of them would prosper, sitting on the throne of David.
The prophecy is fulfilled in Jacob, the descendant of Zechoniah from Solomon, begetting Joseph but is written as "childless" for a son of David to sit on the throne because his firstborn son is raised as Heli's son, in Heli's name with Heli's genealogy and Heli's inheritance.

So Joseph has Heli's name and inheritance for the throne of David, and his firstborn son through Mary's womb inherited the throne of David -proving that Joseph had no sons before he became the legal father of Jesus, and so, the brothers of Jesus mentioned in Scripture were sons of Joseph.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Now I could get on board with that. Except you keep returning to, God said it's unclean and pushing the sin aspect.
I'm all for anyone desiring to eat healthy if they choose. But I would disagree that meat is not healthy . It depends on the source. I would also be sceptical that vegetarians live longer because they don't eat meat (if they even truly live longer). If they do live longer it could easily be that they do other things (being health conscious) like exercise and whole grains, limited alcohol intake etc.
BTW Buffalo do not have wings nor do they fly.

If they did not die from life style, they would die otherwise, in their time and in their season. Our days are numbered in the Book of Life and wickedness cuts us off before our time, and honoring our parents makes us live out our pre-ordained and numbered days in peace.


The Word of God never says meat eaters in any age will die from eating contaminated meat.



Psa 55:23 But thou, O God, shalt bring them down into the pit of destruction: bloody and deceitful men shall not live out half their days; but I will trust in thee.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

DNA was not my point. He had human blood but we have no evidence of Mary's birth tribe. My point was adoption.

Blood is from the father. Mary could not give Jesus a bloodline -and God does not have sex with espoused virgins of other men. The incarnation is a miracle.

Christ come in New Man flesh is the "Geber" -the mighty one and New Man "Ish" who is God in flesh- compassed by the virgin's womb, according to Jeremiah.

 

[tall73]

And frankly, so many of the members on CF don't really have any clue as to our what we eat effects our whole being. How is it that you ask me a question, that you already know the answer to? You were an SDA Pastor, you know that the SDA health message is more biblical and more healthy than anything else out there. Even Joel Osteen and Rick Warren are starting to mimic the SDAs.

I do not know that their teaching is more biblical than anything else out there. The Bible does not say that eating meat enfeebles one spiritually. Please point out the text that says this.

 

[tall73]

Regarding the Priests: They were doing a special ceremony under the direction of God himself.

Yes, God directed them to eat meat.

They ate only clean meats, and they lived in a world that had no industrial pollutants and man made hormones, plus no animals would be sacrificed or eaten that were sick or blemished. Moreover, God himself must have empowered them with His divine power to overcome the large amounts of clean meats that the Priests consumed.

A. Do you have a scripture that says meat eating enfeebles?

B. Do you have a scripture that says the priests were shielded from this enfeeblement?

C. Once the people reached Canaan did they have to continue to not eat meat?

D. Why did Jesus multiply fishes and bread? Why did Jesus cook fish for His disciples? Why did Jesus eat the passover? Why did Jesus refer to fish as good gifts to give children by their fathers?

E. If God wanted them to not eat meat, why outline what meat they could eat?

 

[tall73]

I still owe you some comments on what you asked me. I haven't forgotten.

No worries, you have taken time to discuss your views.

 

[Rev Randy]

I'm a she....
But I am not the one who wrote the New Testament genealogies as both being the genealogies of Joseph. Jacob begat Joseph, says Matthew, and Joseph was the son of Heli, says Luke, and they were both absolutely 100% correct as they stand. The genealogies are both Joseph's and nothing about Mary.

Jacob begat Joseph and as as his own firstborn son born to his wife who was the barren widow of his half brother, Heli, Joseph was raised as Heli's son with Heli's inheritance according to the law of Kinsman/Redeemer.

That is what Eusebius, 4th century historian, made clear in his "Ecclesiastical History", book 1, chapter 7, page 21, 2nd paragraph 2nd sentence:
"Heli and Jacob were brothers by the same mother. Heli dying childless, Jacob raised up seed to him, having Joseph, according to nature belonging to himself, but by law to Heli. Thus, Joseph was the son of both."

Jacob and Heli were of one mother, but of two fathers. Matthat dying after Heli was born, his mother was then free to marry outside of the family since she was not barren. She married Matthan, and they had Jacob.

Mat 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Luk 3:23
And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was [the son] of Heli,
Jeremiah 22:30
"Thus says the LORD, 'Write this man down childless, A man who will not prosper in his days; For no man of his descendants will prosper Sitting on the throne of David Or ruling again in Judah.'"

Matt 1:11
Josiah became the father of *Jeconiah and his brothers, at the time of the deportation to Babylon.

So "Jeconiah is written down as childless" though he had children, not one of them would prosper, sitting on the throne of David.
The prophecy is fulfilled in Jacob, the descendant of Zechoniah from Solomon, begetting Joseph but is written as "childless" for a son of David to sit on the throne because his firstborn son is raised as Heli's son, in Heli's name with Heli's genealogy and Heli's inheritance.

So Joseph has Heli's name and inheritance for the throne of David, and his firstborn son through Mary's womb inherited the throne of David -proving that Joseph had no sons before he became the legal father of Jesus, and so, the brothers of Jesus mentioned in Scripture were sons of Joseph.

Sorry for calling you a dude. I usually make that mistake in reverse of that. Interesting post. Not so sure i agree with the last part as the "brother" of jesus were not necessarily what we call brothers today. Could have been cousins by the greek word used for brothers. That word translates :brother, sister,cousin and reletive But interesting all the same.