Pentecostal Forum Government

[DavidPresently]

Greetings in Messiah, all here,

We as Pentecostals who enjoy this sub-forum, need to come together and decide how best to govern this forum. Hopefully you have all read the changes being instituted by Erwin and staff.

We have many more options available now, and we should view this change as glass half full and not half empty. There is absolutely no reason to be getting down over imaginations of all the problems that might arise in the future. We aren't given a spirit of fear, but of power, love and a sound mind. So, lets get that power, love, and a sound mind together, and deal with things appropriately, in the right spirit/attitude.

One option for governing this forum is to simply keep the old ruleset and re-nominate the Pentecostal mods we already have - I only know of Flaglady - so if there aren't any more, we may need to have someone here be a mod, who the people will agree on being a mod - the majority of people.

I propose a new and simpler ruleset, that is cut and dry, and can be easily understood and quickly read by newbies coming in, plus can be easily enforced by mods.

A complicated ruleset just makes dealing with things more complicated, and can confuse people. We can see this in the confusion over the icon requirement issue. There never was and now will never be an icon requirement in here to post - that is, all you've had to do is to confess being a Pentecostal to post. The old ruleset can be confusing in such ways.

Here are the 3 primary and simple rules I propose, that can be given more details to define the issues, and have a definition of Pentecostal added, which I have also come up with a rough draft one.

Here is the Pentecostal definition, to which one must agree to be considered Pentecostal and post in here.

1. A person faithfully attending a denominational Pentecostal assembly, and either already baptized in the Spirit with speaking in tongues, or actively seeking such OR 2. A person faithfully practicing Pentecostal restoration, by being baptized in the Holy Spirit as evidenced by speaking in tongues PLUS (that is, one of those 2 and)

3. agrees that all gifts of the Holy Spirit are active today
4. Encourages or agrees with encouraging other believers to receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit including the initial evidence, and in seeking other spiritual gifts, including those in 1 Corinthians 12.

I do not propose we keep the Master List idea, but that we can that, and only list those who prove false - that is, a black list, for those who come in and post against Pentecostal beliefs, proving that they don't agree with the above definition, and are at enmity with us. We can then tell them to stop posting in any discussion/debate/teaching, though if they will be appropriate, they can stay to fellowship or ask sincere questions.

This is in line with the new CF Erwin has started.

Next, I propose these three rules:

1. No personal attacks (flaming, etc) allowed
2. To debate, teach, or discuss a topic here, you must be a Pentecostal Christian (then insert definition into this section). Non-Pentecostals may only ask sincere questions or fellowship.
3. If a proclaimed Pentecostal, icon or not, proves to be otherwise, coming in under false pretense, they will be held accountable for breaking rule 2, stating they are Pentecostal when they are not. Initially they will have their right to post for teaching/debate/discussion taken away, and if they continue to cause strife, will have all posting right in here removed.

Then we can re-elect mods that exist like Flaglady, or we can nominate and elect new mods. The majority votes now, and sets up their own government, per the new CF - so we need to get moving in that direction.

The simple rules I've listed would only be there to give a guideline to us and the mods for dealing with true TROUBLE MAKERS. Our hope is that we don't have trouble makers coming in here in the first place, but IF they do, which at times will probably happen, we will have something to point them to, to understand why and how they are being dealt with - to keep it one measure of judgment for all, without respect of persons, which the Scriptures command. Everyone has to comply to the same standard to post here, and this keeps it simple and just.

I know this isn't the most pleasant way to spend our time on here, and I'm only stepping up to get the ball rolling because I don't see anyone else doing it, but I'd rather spend my time in other ways. So, I'm asking the rest of you to step up and start doing your part.

If the majority can agree on the simple ruleset I've proposed, which is in accord with the new CF way, and the Pentecostal definition, then we can get through this fairly quickly. If not, then we need to hear your ideas on ruleset and how to define what a Pentecostal is for those who can freely post in here.

*Note, the new CF way does not allow we make icon requirements - though icons remain for information purposes only, for those choosing to have them visible and set to a certain info.
*Also note, the new CF way says to keep it simple and open. A complex ruleset and one designed to cause this section to be extremely closed off (such as a rule stating only denominational Pentecostals can be here, such as AOG), is in contradiction to the new CF way.

We don't need to strive against the new CF, we need to work with it and do the best we can with it, and pray things go well for us here, and that we can have grace to deal with true trouble makers.

The ruleset I've offered can remain simple and add a few more details, if you think of some that need added. For example, one concerning UPC may need added, or a clause in rule 2 added to state that we do not consider UPC to actually be Pentecostal Christian (Christianity believes in God in Three Persons, not one person, Jesus only).

So, everyone who confesses being a Pentecostal Christian, let us get on with this and get it over with, so we can just go back to enjoying regular posting.

Your servant in Messiah,

David

 

[SeekingtoserveYHWH]

quick and easy rules! lol I started reading the 'icon' post and the master list and on and on and I just hit the back button as I had no clue what most of it was about. I support the rules davidpresently has proposed so we can keep everything civil and encouraging and there will be a cut and dry way to deal with those interrupting the peace we establish.

I don't believe I've flat out said I'm pentecostal- I speak and tongues and support/encourage the baptism/speaking in tongues of others, and believe and support the gifts as they are still active today if only we will yield to them! I also believe in/ support of others the power the Holy Spirit has instilled when receiving of the baptism!

 

[Brother Jason]

Flaglady should definitely stay as mod, she has a good spirit about herself and has always seemed fair.

 

[Dave01]

This is what I have put together so far. It is a take off of currect rules that were structured in other forums on CF. The reason it is very specific in nature is because this is the Pentecostal sub-forum, and it is for those individuals who wear the specific Pentecostal tag, not for those who don't. It is also specific to the triune believing Pentecostal individuals, not the Oneness Pentecostals. This is to avoid the doctrinal battles that would be present between the two parties. They are able to start their own forum according to Erwin.

I'm also seeing where we have people so far who are not Pentecostal wanting to write the rules for this sub-forum, that will not do. We need to hear from those people who are professed, icon wearing, Pentecostal people on here. If you want to vote on this, then you need to be a triune believing Pentecostal, period.


Pentecostal Sub-Forum Code of Conduct

DEFINITION OF PENTECOSTAL

This sub-forum is designated for members of all Triune believing Pentecostal Church Denominations who affirm the Nicene Creed, as was determined by Erwin our CF Administrator: “The subforum for members of Assemblies of God and other Pentecostal churches.” This would include such denominations as The Assemblies of GOD, Church of GOD, Pentecostal Holiness, and Foursquare, etc.

Ensure you read and familiarize yourself with all the rules before posting in this sub-forum. Please note, none of the below Code of Conduct is a change or deviation from the established congregational forum rules of CF, the rules listed below are in addition to the rules of CF that govern the board as a whole, and are what members and non-members are expected to adhere to in this sub-forum.

PENTECOSTAL MEMBERS

1) It is a requirement for a Pentecostal member of this sub-forum to display the Pentecostal icon in his/her profile in order to debate in this sub-forum.

2) We will not debate threads from other forums. If you want to link to a post you made in another forum then that is fine, but you will not link a thread and suggest we debate it.

3) We will not debate topics that are considered argumentive towards the members of the Pentecostal sub-forum and their doctrinal beliefs.

4) We will not post Blog-style threads in this sub-forum.

5) We will not post Prophesy or Prophetic Journals in this sub-forum in accordance with the established CF Prophetic Ministry Guidelines: “The public forums of CF are designed for dialogue/conversation. CF's blogs, however, are designed as a place that one can record and present one's personal views and experiences, as well as journaling one's walk of faith. Since prophecy, by it's nature, is not a conversation but a monologue as one presents what one feels has been revealed to them by the Holy Spirit, prophecies should be limited to one's blog. This will provide an opportunity for posters to share with others without being subject to excessive criticism. Prophecies posted within the general forums will be considered off-topic to the forum.”

6) We will be mindful of other's feelings as much as possible. Our words during debates and conversations can cause hurt, so we need to show the love of Christ and express that love in the truth we post.

NON-PENTECOSTAL MEMBERS

Non-Pentecostal members can only post fellowship type posts or questions. Once a question is answered, then there shall be no debate over the answer in this sub-forum by the non-Pentecostal member. Any debate or apologetic type posts, as well as efforts to answer questions by non-Pentecostal members will be deleted or moved to the appropriate forum.

DEFINITION OF A FELLOWSHIP POST

It is not debate.
Someone not holding the Pentecostal icon may not discuss reasons for or against any subject being discussed on this sub-forum. This includes questions that essentially are rebuttal or argumentative in nature.

It is not apologetics.
Someone who does not hold the Pentecostal icon may not engage in theological discussions that defend their particular point of view on scriptural, theological, doctrinal, social, or political issues.

It is not answering questions.
Let's say a thread is started that asks the question about what do you think about speaking in tongues? Only Pentecostals can offer an opinion about that. A member who does not hold the Pentecostal icon may not answer that question in this sub-forum. This is not to say they don't have an opinion on that topic, but they may not answer that question here in this sub-forum. They may not offer rebuttal to opinions posted in response to a question or discussion.

It is not teaching.
If a thread is started that asks a general question such as what do you think XYZ means? Only a member holding the Pentecostal icon may give instruction on the topic. While there may be many very good ideas on the subject from non-Pentecostals, they will not give instruction in the Pentecostal sub-forum.

What Fellowship is:
Essentially Fellowship is defined as the discussion of topics of association, of companionship - i.e. discussions of things like friends, family, work..... these topics are fellowship. Posts that offer friendship would certainly be described as fellowship.

MODERATOR RULES

1) Moderators will be chosen from the Pentecostal sub-forum and by the Pentecostal sub-forum members. An applicant MUST have a nomination by at least one current staff to be eligible to apply.

2) Only members with more than 100 posts can vote on staff applicants or comment on a moderator application. This is to prevent vote spamming by new accounts.

2) Moderators will be members who continually wear a Pentecostal icon and adhere and agree to the sub-forum rule set.

3) Moderators that change their icon for whatever personal reason will be unfit to moderate in this particular sub-forum and will be immediately reported to their applicable supervisor for removal. A new replacement moderator will be voted in by the members of this sub-forum.

 

[ApostolicKiwi]

Amen to that, Brother. Sounds very reasonable indeed.

 

[Dave01]

Here is the current sub-forum rules from CF,..



Initial Guideline for the Creation of Subforum Rules


Initial guideline for the creation of subforum rules:
1. A subforum rule cannot deny entry
2. A subforum rule can limit subforum debate
3. A subforum rule can exclude specific topics from being posted

For example, one could limit thread and post contents within a subforum with statements of faith, such as the Nicene Creed, The Catechism of the Catholic Church, or the Westminster Confession. Or one could limit debates to only those who hold to a specific belief, while allowing topics to be discussed, or one could be pretty open. It is for the members to decide.

In the event, a subforum cannot achieve some level of agreement on what their rules should be, the creation of additional subforums are a possibility.



This can be found here,..

http://www.christianforums.com/t5670030-initial-guideline-for-the-creation-of-subforum-rules.html

I will re-vamp my post in some areas to conform to this standard.

 

[cyberlizard]

i agree with almost everything said so far with one exception. the icon issue. I hold simply a christian icon as I belong to a number of groups these being both pentecostal and messianic. I think it would be unfair to discriminate against people just because they do not hold your badge. After all, people come to your churches who would not necessarily call themselves pentecostals but just christians, this is not to say they are not pentecostals just that they do not like the baggage.

Steve

p.s. unless the system can be changed so people can hold multiple faith badges.

keep the faith, Jude 24,25

 

[Dave01]

i agree with almost everything said so far with one exception. the icon issue. I hold simply a christian icon as I belong to a number of groups these being both pentecostal and messianic. I think it would be unfair to discriminate against people just because they do not hold your badge. After all, people come to your churches who would not necessarily call themselves pentecostals but just christians, this is not to say they are not pentecostals just that they do not like the baggage.

Steve

p.s. unless the system can be changed so people can hold multiple faith badges.

keep the faith, Jude 24,25

It is not discrimination.

This is called the PENTECOSTAL sub-forum, just like there is a Word of Faith sub-forum. These sub-forums were created by Erwin for those people who wear a specific icon.

Let's understand that the general section will still be available to everyone. These two sub-forums are in place for specific groups.

 

[Dave01]

Edited and made some changes to conform to the proposed sub-forum rules.

 

[TheGloryisHere]

Here is the current sub-forum rules from CF,..



Initial Guideline for the Creation of Subforum Rules


Initial guideline for the creation of subforum rules:
1. A subforum rule cannot deny entry

I think that means you can't keep someone out without a pent icon.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with that, just making an observation. You'll need to check with Erwin to see if you can make that subforum rule.

 

[c1ners]

I vote that Dave01 become our new moderator! Any seconds?

 

[Cotmweasel]

The Rules sound good Dave.

as far as mods. I think we need to get a good list of candidates. (say 5 or so) and then we can vote on those.

 

[DavidPresently]

It is not discrimination.

This is called the PENTECOSTAL sub-forum, just like there is a Word of Faith sub-forum. These sub-forums were created by Erwin for those people who wear a specific icon.

Let's understand that the general section will still be available to everyone. These two sub-forums are in place for specific groups.

Dave01: I'm a leader of Pentecostal assembly (meaning we are baptized in the Spirit with speaking in tongues and operate in all gifts of the Spirit), but we have no denominational affiliation, as I'm a sent one founding the assembly. I was commissioned and sent by God, not man, which is why I refuse to put man's badge on me.

However, we believe in regard to Pentecostal things the same.

IF Erwin can have it changed, so that I can have more than one icon, I will include the Pentecostal icon, along with the one I have, and one other.

Our assembly is scripturally Pentecostal, scripturally WoF (with balance), yet technically non-denominational as we are not directly governed by any man-made denominational structure, such as COG headquarters or AOG leadership. However, our practice and belief is generally the same, and our message about salvation and Spirit baptism are the same.

I find it hard to fathom why the icon issue is so important to you, and I must say, it does not seem to come from the Holy Spirit, or the Word, but from the flesh.

I have already stated that I do not plan on being a part of voting here, unless I have the icon, as I'll be voting in the ND forum. However, you should align with the new CF way, without fear or judgment, and allow all to post in here, but trouble makers. The rule set should protect against trouble makers causing strife with their posts and putting us down, not those of us who agree with you concerning Pentecost for today.

Why are you balking on such? What is your real issue?

 

[DavidPresently]

I vote that Dave01 become our new moderator! Any seconds?

Just because of the conduct in dealing with Flaglady which was not spiritual or wise, and the unwillingness to align with the new CF way Erwin has instituted, which clearly states that there is to be open and not closed ways for each forum section, including that NO ICON rule for posting can exist, I have to advise at this time you do not vote Dave01 in as a mod. He has not shown himself of the proper character and attitude to be a mod who judges people equally, with the same measure, which is the only lawful way, instead of making judgments based on specifics of likes and dislikes of his own self.

I think that you have one great mod already in Flaglady, who should be voted in to stay as such, and that you need to elect a mod with the Pentecost icon who wants to do it, who has meekness and agrees with the new CF, or at least can submit and keep disagreement (trouble making) silent, and judge everyone, icon or not, with the same measure of judgment.

If you allow Dave01, in his current state of mind on this subject, to mod and set rules, you are going to end up in conflict with Erwin and the new CF way, and going to end up being a closed place (sectarian) which is not of the Holy Spirit or love or power or a sound mind, but is of pride and fear.

This is my advise - better or worse - take it or leave it - as I will not be a mod or a voter here, unless I can later put up the icon. I'm for only Pentecost icon people being voters here, so that you have your own forum to govern, within the new CF guidelines.

I want to make clear that I personally like Dave01 and his zeal for the things of the Spirit and no he does many good works for God. I have no personal issue with him, but enjoy reading his posts and him being here - and hope he can change the above issues, to be the leader to you guys he needs to be. If he will deal with these issues spiritually, he will make a great leader.

Yours in Messiah,

David

 

[c1ners]

If I'm correct in my understanding what I think Dave01 is trying to say is that this subforum should be icon restricted. Anyone is welcome to post in the main pentecostal forum, but in the sub forums it should be restricted. What would be the point in having a pentecostal sub forum if it were free for all to post in it? That just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Dave01]

Here is the current congregational rule Erwin has on the Wiki,..

1.3 Congregational Areas Will Have Their Own Rules for Debating

The members of the Congregational fora will be empowered to elect their own moderators and establish their own rules for who may debate in them. In essence, they will remain safe-havens for members of the Congregation.

This does not mean that Congregational fora are allowed to make rules that conflict with the CF rules.

This can be found here,..

http://www.christianforums.com/t5671474-christian-forums-general-wiki.html

I'm going to go over what I have here so far to ensure it is aligning with this.

 

[DavidPresently]

If I'm correct in my understanding what I think Dave01 is trying to say is that this subforum should be icon restricted. Anyone is welcome to post in the main pentecostal forum, but in the sub forums it should be restricted. What would be the point in having a pentecostal sub forum if it were free for all to post in it? That just doesn't make sense to me.

The new CF guidelines put out by Erwin do not allow for icon restrictions anymore, so that those who say "I'm Pentecostal" but go to a non-denominational assembly that is Pentecostal but not denominationally attached are barred for no good reason. Or, if someone hiding their marriage icon wants to go in the marriage section, as a truly married person who doesn't have the icon up, which is their choice.

The point is, Erwin is saying that no one has to put up any icon to prove anything. Which makes sense. What does an icon mean? Anyone who is a troll can start an account, put up the Pentecostal icon, and post in here. Does that make them Pentecostal?

This is why I say Dave01 is not dealing with this spiritually, or with wisdom. He is still trying to fight a fight already lost, which is usually a sign we are struggling with pride. I don't know that is his case, but I know that it makes no logical or sound mind sense.

The point of this sub forum is so WE Pentecostals have a place to meet and talk. Plus, a place where sincere people not yet Pentecostal can come in and find answers, that hopefully will help them accept that restoration of truth we offer. We should encourage everyone to come in, who will not make trouble, to post, so that we can be a good influence on others, serving others, and not just ourselves.

So, yes, it is a sub forum for Pentecostals, but as Erwin has put out in the new guideline, the icon cannot be made necessary to PROVE anyone is or is not such. The suggested rules I listed and definition of Pentecostal gives the guideline we need for proof. If someone comes in and says "I'm Pentecostal" according to your definition, and then by their posts and making of trouble proves they are not, THEN the rules are their to guide you voters and the voted in mods concerning how to deal with those trouble makers.

Dave01 is not wanting to exclude just trouble makers, but is wanted an exclusive forum for denominational Pentecostals who proudly show their icon ONLY. This is closing it off, against Erwin's guidelines, and is unnecessary in dealing with trouble makers - true trouble makers. It would exclude those like myself, who have experience in teaching about the Pentecostal reformation of truth, including the baptism of the Holy Spirit and how to receive, and the operation of the gifts of the Spirit. This means, that Dave01's way lacks any discernment to be able to differentiate between a trouble maker, and a person who can benefit others concerning Pentecostal things in here.

It goes against the whole pioneering spirit of Pentecost reformation, from Topeka Kansas to Azuza street. None of those were "AOG" or anything, and did not appreciate labels of men put on them. I believe I come in the same spirit as those people, as I also am taking place in constant reformation of truth and restoration of Pentecost, but do not like when men try to box me into a label they've made. This is because we do not see ourselves as our own, or a man's, but we have only one Master, and he has not given us the AOG or any other label.

This is not to put down someone who is fine with affiliation, as I'm fine with that IF I were in an AOG or other church, affiliating. It is to say, that the idea that one MUST have such a label does not come from the restoration of Pentecost or the Holy Spirit received by such restoration, but comes from somewhere else - either the flesh, or a religious sectarian spirit.

This is why Seeking... said she has not flat out said she's a Pentecostal - meaning, she is not a denominational Pentecostal, and is much more than such. But, she stated she has partaken in the restoration of Pentecost, and thus truly is Pentecostal, but not by denominational association. I can speak for her assembly operating in all gifts of the Spirit and being truly Pentecostal, because I'm the pastor. And I'm the one who laid hands on her when she received the baptism in the Holy Spirit and spoke with tongues, with empowerment of operating supernaturally in the other gifts following to this day.

She operates in dreams and visions and prophesying primarily. So, if she's been baptized in the Holy Spirit, and speaks in tongues, regularly, daily, and also prophesies which I've heard with my own ears, and seen all these own signs with my own eyes, then is she less Pentecostal over an icon than someone here with the icon who has never experienced such things? We know there are those here with the icon or in assemblies you go to, who have not received - yet are they more Pentecostal? No one in our current assembling membership have not received. All of them operate in the power as witnesses (Acts 1:8).

So, if we have a 100% reception rate for our regular membership, proven over time, are we any less Pentecostal of an assembly because we are non-denominational? I think not. But, according to the icon rule, it would state, yes, you are less Pentecostal and we don't accept you here. To put it in British, that is rubbish.

When I had to deal with that rubbish in the WoF section before Erwin changed the guidelines (they there are going along with it btw, unlike Dave01 so far), I couldn't believe it. I was a newbie here, and agree with the scriptural word of faith issues (every movement has extremist who get out of balance which I don't agree with), yet they said I wasn't in agreement over an icon. An icon - on a computer screen. Think about how silly that is. Really think about it.

 

[Dave01]

If I'm correct in my understanding what I think Dave01 is trying to say is that this subforum should be icon restricted. Anyone is welcome to post in the main pentecostal forum, but in the sub forums it should be restricted. What would be the point in having a pentecostal sub forum if it were free for all to post in it? That just doesn't make sense to me.

Yes C1, in a nutshell, that is exactly what I'm doing. This is a specific sub-forum that is titled for Pentecostals, so I'm ensuring the ruleset is designed with us in mind.

Erwins ruleset he has so far reflects this mentality,..

In essence, they will remain safe-havens for members of the Congregation.

But our rules cannot conflict with the with the CF rules.

 

[Wigglesworth]

There are Pentecostals who choose not to bear a Pentecostal icon for a variety of reasons. Also, it is important to note that the WOF subforum was not created as a place for people with WOF icons. It was created for WOF people regardless of their icon. The rule precluding debate by anyone without a WOF icon came later.

Peace.

 

[Dave01]

Here is what is listed by Erwin for moderators,..

Forum Moderator(moderators)

can only moderate individual forums

The above 3 categories will be voted on by members.

Moderator Applicants

An applicant MUST have a nomination by at least one current staff to be eligible to apply.

Only members with more than 100 posts can [wiki]vote on staff applicants[/wiki] or comment on a moderator application. This is to prevent vote spamming by new accounts. This policy may change depending in how things work.

I'll make applicable changes.