Peanut Gallery - Formal Debate - New World Order

[Rick Otto]

Sorry. Just if there was some al powerful group co ordinating everything, I'd expect empirical evidence. Plenty of evil, immorality and misguidedly harmful good intentions around, sure. I see no reason to believe they're all somehow organised.

Of course not. Satan doesn't plan and no one works with him.
I get that.

 

[Armoured]

Of course not. Satan doesn't plan and no one works with him.
I get that.

So we're invoking Satan as the driving force here? OK. Pretty pointless to get too worked up about it then.

 

[Simpleman25]

So in your mind, you got me.
I never said you said...
lol,... never mind.
Be happy, don't worry.

I didn't get you. Just pointing out that you have yet to prove anything.

 

[Rick Otto]

So we're invoking Satan as the driving force here? OK. Pretty pointless to get too worked up about it then.

I don't consent to "invoking", but since he wants God's place, and him being the most evil "driver",....
But of course, you're right. No point. Stay calm.

 

[Rick Otto]

I didn't get you. Just pointing out that you have yet to prove anything.

OK, "gotcha" must not not mean what I thought it did.
Pardon my confusion, and thank you for pointing out I have yet to prove anything.

 

[Simpleman25]

OK, "gotcha" must not not mean what I thought it did.
Pardon my confusion, and thank you for pointing out I have yet to prove anything.

Perhaps I should clarify, or simplify my comment.

When I used the term 'gotcha', I was saying I understand. I understand that you have yet to prove anything. Nothing but a running commentary that has led nowhere.

 

[Armoured]

I don't consent to "invoking", but since he wants God's place, and him being the most evil "driver",....
But of course, you're right. No point. Stay calm.

You "don't consent to "invoking""?

 

[Rhamiel]

Sorry. Just if there was some al powerful group co ordinating everything, I'd expect empirical evidence. Plenty of evil, immorality and misguidedly harmful good intentions around, sure. I see no reason to believe they're all somehow organised.

why do you think evidence?
if they are as powerful as is being presented, they would cover up as much evidence as they could?

here is one attack by the Massonic group P2 in Italy that infiltrated the Vatican Bank and was involved in money laundering
Roberto Calvi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Freemasonry has as one of its aims, the destruction of the Church because Freemasonry and Catholicism are incompatible

 

[Rick Otto]

Perhaps I should clarify, or simplify my comment.

When I used the term 'gotcha', I was saying I understand. I understand that you have yet to prove anything. Nothing but a running commentary that has led nowhere.

Right, "nowhere. Gotcha.

 

[Rick Otto]

You "don't consent to "invoking""?

No, I don't. Can't agree with you that I "invoked".
I don't think that word is appropriate.
Hope you're alright with that.

 

[Simpleman25]

why do you think evidence?
if they are as powerful as is being presented, they would cover up as much evidence as they could?

here is one attack by the Massonic group P2 in Italy that infiltrated the Vatican Bank and was involved in money laundering
Roberto Calvi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Freemasonry has as one of its aims, the destruction of the Church because Freemasonry and Catholicism are incompatible

I'll make sure to remind my Catholic brothers that we are to destroy the church.
SMH

 

[Rick Otto]

The problem with conspiracy mocking coincidence theorists, is that want to believe everyone pushing the conspiracy along, does it knowingly.
You can repeat it endlessly in myriad ways that lower level functionaries are only told what they need to know to accomplish their specific task. They act like the soldiers in the trenches are privy to everything the generals know.
That isn't how any of it works.

 

[Rick Otto]

 

[Rhamiel]

I'll make sure to remind my Catholic brothers that we are to destroy the church.
SMH

ok, thank you for being honest about it

 

[Armoured]

The problem with conspiracy mocking coincidence theorists, is that want to believe everyone pushing the conspiracy along, does it knowingly.
You can repeat it endlessly in myriad ways that lower level functionaries are only told what they need to know to accomplish their specific task. They act like the soldiers in the trenches are privy to everything the generals know.
That isn't how any of it works.

Soldiers in the trenches do know they're in the army, though, and what they're overall aim is, even if they're not privy to the general's plan.

 

[Armoured]

why do you think evidence?
if they are as powerful as is being presented, they would cover up as much evidence as they could?

Goes to scale. If this super big, super powerful conspiracy were so super big and super powerful, they'd leave evidence. People make mistakes.

here is one attack by the Massonic group P2 in Italy that infiltrated the Vatican Bank and was involved in money laundering
Roberto Calvi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Like I said, I'm happy to accept any sufficiently large group will have self serving members who misuse their connections to do wrong. Be it Freemasons or Boy Scouts. Or the Church, for that matter. But one instance of one lodge "infiltrating" one bank does not a global conspiracy make.

Freemasonry has as one of its aims, the destruction of the Church because Freemasonry and Catholicism are incompatible

I'm still just not seeing it. Catholicism is incompatible with a lot of things, but I don't take that as prima facie evidence that those other things are bent on the destruction of the church.

Sorry. I've researched this a bit previously, and my honest opinion is that confirmation bias and a few other cognitive biases explain the existence of the belief in this conspiracy far better than, you know, an actual secret global conspiracy.

 

[Simpleman25]

ok, thank you for being honest about it

I was being sarcastic Rhamiel.

In all the years, in all the states, in all the countries I've attended lodge in, I've never heard anything negative concerning the Church.

Far to many Catholics are freemasons for that to be true.

In fact I've pointed out to you that there are long standing theories that there are freemasons in the Vatican.

You can't have it both ways.

 

[Rick Otto]

Sorry. I've researched this a bit previously, and my honest opinion is that confirmation bias and a few other cognitive biases explain the existence of the belief in this conspiracy far better than, you know, an actual secret global conspiracy.

Forgive me for pointing out confirmation bias & other biases also explain the denial of evidence.

 

[Rhamiel]

I was being sarcastic Rhamiel.

In all the years, in all the states, in all the countries I've attended lodge in, I've never heard anything negative concerning the Church.

Far to many Catholics are freemasons for that to be true.

In fact I've pointed out to you that there are long standing theories that there are freemasons in the Vatican.

You can't have it both ways.

there probably are Freemasons in the Vatican, that is almost undeniable

during the 1960's there were Soviet agents in the State Department
right now there are American and British Citizens over in Syria and Iraq fighting for Islamic State

In 1926 the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry gave an award to Mexican president Plutarco Calles for his oppressive and murderous campaign against Catholics
removing property rights from the Church and taking away civil liberties from clergy (including trial by jury and the right to vote) religious orders were kicked out of the country
in places where the persecution was the worst, Catholic priests would be executed on sight.

modern (but not current) Mexican President Vicente Fox described the period like this
"After 1917, Mexico was led by anti-Catholic Freemasons who tried to evoke the anticlerical spirit of popular indigenous President Benito Juárez of the 1800s. But the military dictators of the 1920s were a lot more savage than Juarez"

 

[Rhamiel]

Catholic Priest executed by Mexican Soldiers under the regime of Freemason President Calles
Calles was HONORED by Scottish Rite Freemasons for this, so do not try and claim that "oh there are bad apples in every group"
he was going along with the aims of that group