Peaceful protest

[Hammster]

What instances of Christian persecution would fit even in the broadest of definitions?

Merriam-Webster's definition of "persecute"


verb
per·se·cute
| \ ˈpər-si-ˌkyüt \
persecuted; persecuting
Collegiate Definition

• transitive verb
• 1: to harass or punish in a mannerdesigned to injure, grieve, or afflict
  specifically : to cause to suffer because of belief
• 2: to annoy with persistent or urgentapproaches (such as attacks, pleas, or importunities) : PESTER
  
  

 

[Nevada Smith]

And you believe they will not give you back those rights to gather together once the current crisis passes ?

That it is end times now with Satan banning church gatherings, weddings and funerals ?

Relax, they will get those vaccines and the epidemic will burn out one way or another.

Sure, some places with money like Casinos can probably buy some policy makers to keep their businesses up but there is no reason to believe the meeting restrictions will be uphold permanently or something.

I am sure that most of the restrictions will be lifted in time. But for now those restrictions are in place. And when the next 'crisis" comes along Christians will be the first to face new restrictions. Often times restrictions are not removed, just not enforced till the next time.

Think of it as the Marxist two step, two steps forward, one back.

This is the more common assault on Christianity taking place here
Colorado Christian cakeshop sued a third time for discrimination

 

[Arc F1]

You are free to make a thread about those. I just despise copy pasting blown up headlines as a proof that the world is ending and padding up Christian persecution complex.

There are places where Christians are persecuted. There are places where Muslims are persecuted and there are way more places where atheists, gays and other minorities are persecuted.

US is not a place where Christian are systematically persecuted. What is happening is the steady erosion of historical Christian privileges that some people take as “persecution”

Get over it. If the message is sound nobody needs special treatment right ?

All of these small steps eventually take there toll on Christianity. How many will fall away because of the lack of fellowship? How many churches won't be able to open again? Over and over we see the American public being told that worship will spread the virus and it must be stopped. Ever so slowly the public perception of believers is being changed.

 

[Arc F1]

And you believe they will not give you back those rights to gather together once the current crisis passes ?

That it is end times now with Satan banning church gatherings, weddings and funerals ?

Relax, they will get those vaccines and the epidemic will burn out one way or another.

Sure, some places with money like Casinos can probably buy some policy makers to keep their businesses up but there is no reason to believe the meeting restrictions will be uphold permanently or something.

I've already seen one church in my community close permanently.

 

[Arc F1]

200 people protested, 5 were ticketed and three were arrested. They were arrested for resisting or obstructing police officers. The arrests and tickets had zero to do with their religion. Do you actually believe that the police in Idaho are targeting Christians? Most of those cops probably are Christians themselves.

I don't believe that the police are but it's obvious that the politicians are.

 

[Albion]

What you’re missing is the BLM protest outside of the police station that happened in July. They were not “social distancing” and there were no arrests or citations.

and by the way, it appears that the woman arrested in Ohio was keeping the social distancing, was not there as part of any protest demonstration, and it occurred out of doors.

There is no doubt about there being some sort of double standard evident in these kinds of actions by the police, perhaps born out of frustration over their inability to take action against the really lawless people.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

I've already seen one church in my community close permanently.

So ? What has that got to do with rights of the people to get together ?

I am sure lots of churches close all over the country in normal times or just change owners while others open up or are built.

Also since the term permanently implies knowledge of the future did they demolish the place or how can you say it is permanent in first place ?

 

[Thomas White]

Merriam-Webster's definition of "persecute"


verb
per·se·cute
| \ ˈpər-si-ˌkyüt \
persecuted; persecuting
Collegiate Definition

• transitive verb
• 1: to harass or punish in a mannerdesigned to injure, grieve, or afflict
  specifically : to cause to suffer because of belief
• 2: to annoy with persistent or urgentapproaches (such as attacks, pleas, or importunities) : PESTER
  

What instances of persecution are Christians undergoing based on the above definition?

 

[Hammster]

What instances of persecution are Christians undergoing based on the above definition?

Any place where restrictions have been placed on churches in how they worship. Although not the only one, the most prominent right now is Grace Community Church in California. The State has said that they are not allowed to worship in the way that scripture says they must. And they’ve threatened legal action including fines and imprisonments.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

This is the more common assault on Christianity taking place here

This is a textbook case of what Christians think is persecution.

Not allowing a person (the cake maker) to discriminate others on religious grounds like in good old times of segregation is now persecution.

Do we really want societies where businesses and services can be withheld based on age, race, sexual orientation, religious beliefs and thousand other things ?

Do you want a shop clerk to refuse selling you bacon because it is against his personal beliefs ?

Do you want police officer to treat your claims with disdain because of your skin color ?

Or janitor not bother fixing your leaking pipe because you are a Muslim ?

An employer not to hire you because you are a woman that might get pregnant ?

Muslim landlord to kick you out of your apartment because you held a Christian wedding there ?

Discrimination will just breed more of the same, which will inevitably create more instability, more hatred that populists can then cash in.

Do you really believe discrimination is the thing that will create a better world ?

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

Any place where restrictions have been placed on churches in how they worship. Although not the only one, the most prominent right now is Grace Community Church in California. The State has said that they are not allowed to worship in the way that scripture says they must. And they’ve threatened legal action including fines and imprisonments.

Based on current medical emergency. If you get these after the pandemic passes you might have a case.

You really don’t think that having an open mega church ceremonies during this pandemic with 200000 dead already might have some adverse effects ?

 

[Hammster]

Based on current medical emergency. If you get these after the pandemic passes you might have a case.

You really don’t think that having an open mega church ceremonies during this pandemic with 200000 dead already might have some adverse effects ?

They’ve been meeting for two months now. Full services with singing. No adverse effects.

 

[Albion]

This is a textbook case of what Christians think is persecution.

You need a textbook that deals with the subject here, not just perceived wrong somewhere or other in society.

The laws of our country mandate a freedom of religion, the freedom to be a functioning member of a religion, not just permission to hold your own thoughts however screwy they might be.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

The laws of our country mandate a freedom of religion

I would venture you probably have laws against discrimination as well.

So do you think it is fine if the shop clerk decides not to sell you bacon because he is a Muslim ?

 

[Albion]

I would venture you probably have laws against discrimination as well.

So do you think it is fine if the shop clerk decides not to sell you bacon because he is a Muslim ?

But this kind of example you are persisting in leaning on doesn't come close to addressing the real issue, which is and has been the denial to Christians of the right to practice their religion.

When a church can be forbidden by a political edict from conducting worship services while, at the same time, there is a complete respect for the right of people to assemble in order to protest some other people that they don't like--that's a lot more to the point than who gets to buy what cake or bacon.

And by the way, if a Muslim feels as you described in your scenario, I don't imagine that he'd have bacon for sale in his store, not that he would have it and refuse to sell you any!

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

They’ve been meeting for two months now. Full services with singing. No adverse effects.

Well, let’s be charitable and believe this is true. Does it still sound logical to keep place like that open during pandemic simply because they have dodged the bullet so far ?

Like those fertilizers stored in that port in Beirut for years. They hadn’t blown up before so why move them away ?

Worked fine until it didn’t.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

the real issue, which is and has been the denial to Christians of the right to practice their religion.

Here I only thought it was forbidden to have large gatherings inside and with some restrictions outside.

Can you link who has denied the Christian rights to practice their religion ?

I agree that would be bad.

And by the way, if a Muslim feels as you described in your scenario, I don't imagine that he'd have bacon for sale in his store, not that he would have it and refuse to sell you any!

It might not be his shop. Maybe he was just from some staff rental firm to fill up someone who was sick.

The question stands.

How would it make you feel ?

Angry that someone denied you the chance to buy what you wanted based of his personal beliefs you could care less about ?

What in your opinion makes it any less discriminating and obnoxious when Christians do it to others ?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I'm praising the Lord and asking everyday what I can do to serve.

Amen!

 

[Hammster]

I would venture you probably have laws against discrimination as well.

So do you think it is fine if the shop clerk decides not to sell you bacon because he is a Muslim ?

Why would a Muslim be selling bacon?

 

[Albion]

Here I only thought it was forbidden to have large gatherings inside and with some restrictions outside.

To begin with, allowing only ten people inside when the congregation may consist of several hundred is tantamount to forbidding the worship service. And of course, "allowing" a service outside and only if it's outside is not religious freedom.

This sort of reminds me of the Nazi-era regulations against the Jews by which they could live indoors, but not with heat; they could travel but not on public conveyances; and they could marry, but not to non-Jews, etc. There comes a point at which the regulations effectively prohibit whatever it is but it is still possible for the people doing the prohibiting to claim that they haven't prohibited it!