PCUSA v PCA

[Paleoconservatarian]

hola,

how do you all measure how 'reformed' a presbyterian church or denomination is? if i'm not mistaken there is more to reformed theology than john calvin and more to presbyterianism than john calvin... don't you also follow the teachings of knox?

given that you are drawing from various sources... how is it determined that one presbyterian church is more presby than another?

gracias

Well, a good place to start is see if the church really adheres to the historical Reformed confessions (in the case of Presbyterian churches, this would be the Westminster Confession). To be honest, John Calvin isn't as important in Presbyterianism as you might think. Several of his moderate, well-balanced and highly nuanced positions (e.g. his position on the Lord's Supper or on the fourth commandment) don't find all that much representation in Presbyterian churches.

But I believe the primary standard of how Presbyterian a Presbyterian church is ought to be faithfulness to that which defines Presbyterianism: its creeds and confessions.

 

[TraderJack]

The PCUSA is a mainline denomination with little but a history of the organization being from a Reformed background. One brighter light in the PCUSA is the Alliance of Confessing Churches within the PCUSA. They are more careful with the original Confession and Catechisms of the Presbyterian Church.

One of those being First Presbyterian of Pittsburgh, PA, quite possibly the oldest Presbyterian church in the USA, and is still a Christ centered, Bible believing Reformed church. They may be splitting from the PC-USA very soon though over ordaining homosexuals, among other things.

 

[TraderJack]

I'm with Behe and Paleo in this discussion.

The PCA is not even "relatively" liberal in the tradional way that the term liberal is used. The PCA does have a wing that is more "evangelical" and "less" Reformed, but none are theologically or socially liberal as the word is usually understood.

Calvin had some views that were radically different than the English Puritans or the Scotch Presbyterians. Calvin believed their type of "sabbaterianism" was crazy. That does not make the Puritans more conservative than Reformed forerunner (i.e. John Calvin). It does make them to differ with him on this and some other issues but it does not make them more conservative. That is very different than "liberal" verses "conservative."

We need to keep those differences and not muddy the waters by mis-using these terms.

Coram Deo,
Kenith

BTW, Behe is correct the PCA split from the PCUS in 1973.

Excellent points, all.

I might add that we also want to take care not to confuse customs with legalism, for legalism is a term that refers to soteriology, whereas a particularized church may have different customs, such as adhering strictly to the Psalter, how often to sup at the Lord's Table, etc, those are not legalistic prescriptions tied to salvation, but are customs which a particularized church is free to hold to.

 

[TraderJack]

Sorry for the slight thread drift here, but is it a requirement that PCA chuches only have communion communion once a month, or is it up to the individual churches if they want to have communion on a more frequent basis?

A particularized PCA church is an autonomous church within a presbytery and enjoy a certain amount of freedom in many areas, especially when it comes to customs.

We used to sup at the Lord's Table once a month, but went to a weekly sup nearly a year ago after much discussion and debate within the session(body of elders) and with the congregation as a whole, settling on following the admonishment, "As oft as you gather, do this in rememberance of Me".

Why, we even sup at the Lord's Table at mid-week prayer services on occasion, but are careful to not, so often that it becomes taken for granted or cavalierly.

 

[edie19]

hola,

how do you all measure how 'reformed' a presbyterian church or denomination is? if i'm not mistaken there is more to reformed theology than john calvin and more to presbyterianism than john calvin... don't you also follow the teachings of knox?

given that you are drawing from various sources... how is it determined that one presbyterian church is more presby than another?

gracias

I'm actually a tad surprised to not have seen it mentioned - but presbyterian refers to a form of church government - so as far as PCA vs PCUSA goes one isn't more "presby" than the other.

However there are certainly doctrinal differences between the two.

 

[edie19]

closing per OP request