Paul Ryan on Progressivism

[Grizzly]

It depends on what you mean. Progressives like to use that term to claim every good thing that's ever happened as their own. Thus, anyone who is against their ideas, for whatever reason, is "regressive." I would argue that the Progressive movement is not actually "progressive" in that sense. The Progressive Party as I know them, are neither progressive nor liberal. Going down the wrong road is not progressive. Wanting to return from that wrong path is not regressive. Giving government more power so they can "intervene" in a social problem is not liberal. That is why I prefer the term Statist, or Authoritarian, because that is far more accurate than the other two.

As for government force abolishing slavery, what do you mean? I see the Civil War as a failure in that we failed to abolish it through actual legal means rather than through brute force.

I don't see those that oppose Progressives as being regressive. I see them as being Conservative. I'm using the dictionary definitions of the two.

progressive - definition of progressive by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

favouring or promoting political or social reform through government action, or even revolution, to improve the lot of the majority

conservative - definition of conservative by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.

Progressives like to enact change through government action. Conservatives believe the government should be as small and absent as possible.

And I definitely see abolition as the work of Progressives. It was the promoting of social reform through government action. I certainly don't claim every good thing was Progressive. And I listed some missteps as well.

I am even open to the possibility that welfare as its currently designed is a disaster that you can blame on Progressives. Many ills of the public education system are also probably on our head.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Just in case there is any doubt about whether Obama considers himself a "Progressive" ... a self-description:
Barack Obama 2000 Debate: "Progressive Urban Democrat" - YouTube

 

[Grizzly]

Of course Obama is a progressive. Not progressive enough for many, but he is a progressive.

 

[Vylo]

Progressive is a self-description: Congressional Progressive Caucus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Congressional Progressive Caucus (CPC) is the largest membership organization within the Democratic Caucus in the United States Congress with 76 declared members. They work to advance progressive issues and positions.
...
The Congressional Progressive Caucus (CPC) was established in 1991 by six members of the United States House of Representatives: U.S. Representatives Ron Dellums (D-CA), Lane Evans (D-IL), Thomas Andrews (D-ME), Peter DeFazio (D-OR), Maxine Waters (D-CA), and Bernie Sanders (I-VT). Additional House Members joined soon thereafter, including Major Owens (D-NY), Nydia Velázquez (D-NY), David Bonior (D-MI), Bob Filner (D-CA), Barney Frank (D-MA), Maurice Hinchey (D-NY), Jim McDermott (D-WA), Jerrold Nadler (D-NY), Patsy Mink (D-HI), George Miller (D-CA), Pete Stark (D-CA), John Olver (D-MA), Lynn Woolsey (D-CA), and Nancy Pelosi (D-CA). Then-U.S. Representative Bernie Sanders was the convener and first CPC Chairman.
​

Progressive is how they want to be known. Nancy Pelosi was their figurehead for years.

I'm glad to oblige by calling them by their chosen name. You're welcome.

Except your definitions of progressive tend not to agree with the english defintion, much like your defintions of socialism.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Except your definitions of progressive tend not to agree with the english defintion, much like your defintions of socialism.

LOL ... don't blame me, Vylo.

Blame the Progressives. They are the ones who latched onto the standard English definition in hopes of attracting followers ... and then strayed far from that definition. They share that propensity to redefine terms with other major left-wing groups. It's a form of revisionism. Sorry you fell for it this time.

 

[Vylo]

LOL ... don't blame me, Vylo.

Blame the Progressives. They are the ones who latched onto the standard English definition in hopes of attracting followers ... and then strayed far from that definition. They share that propensity to redefine terms with other major left-wing groups. It's a form of revisionism. Sorry you fell for it this time.

Except you have failed to show that they are they are anything other then simply progressive, as the english language dictates. You've performed similar errors with defining people as socialist using a completly false definition of the word.

 

[Rion]

Except you have failed to show that they are they are anything other then simply progressive, as the english language dictates. You've performed similar errors with defining people as socialist using a completly false definition of the word.

It's honestly the "Progressives" fault. They tend to change labels more than some guys change underwear. They used to go by "Liberal" until that became a byword.

 

[Creech]

Progressive ideas are helping to destroy our country and civilization from the inside.

 

[Vylo]

It's honestly the "Progressives" fault. They tend to change labels more than some guys change underwear. They used to go by "Liberal" until that became a byword.

Plenty still go by the term liberal, just like the term "climate change", you can thank revionist word master Frank Luntz for using slander to make liberal less palpable.

 

[stamperben]

It's honestly the "Progressives" fault. They tend to change labels more than some guys change underwear. They used to go by "Liberal" until that became a byword.

For the record: I was never a "liberal." A radical, a leftist, a young communist, but never a liberal.

Might want to use a bit narrower brush next time.

 

[Grizzly]

Progressive ideas are helping to destroy our country and civilization from the inside.

Can you name some you think (in your opinion) are the worst progressive ideas?

 

[Rion]

Can you name some you think (in your opinion) are the worst progressive ideas?

I know it wasn't directed at me, but anything that reeks of collectivism or grants the government even more power.

 

[Received]

Clearly the abolition of slavery by government force is progressive. Government intervention to solve a social problem? Progressive.

It's useful for the right to label "progressive" what they know started with the left but would be grounds for hell raising from their constituents if they brought it under the slightest light for criticism.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Except you have failed to show that they are they are anything other then simply progressive, as the english language dictates. You've performed similar errors with defining people as socialist using a completly false definition of the word.

Their own definitions aren't sufficient for you, Vylo?


Sorry you don't like the Wikipedia definition for either Progressive or Socialist, Vylo. Again, don't blame me. I did not provide a false definition for either. I'm also not responsible for your FALSE understanding of either of these movements.

 

[Grizzly]

I know it wasn't directed at me, but anything that reeks of collectivism or grants the government even more power.

So things like Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid?

 

[Viren]

So things like Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid?

Ugh. The stench of helping old people.

 

[Grizzly]

Ugh. The stench of helping old people.

Well, apparently its stealing the resources accrued by the rich to pay for the poor choices made by the elderly. Things were so much better before Social Security.

 

[Vylo]

Their own definitions aren't sufficient for you, Vylo?


Sorry you don't like the Wikipedia definition for either Progressive or Socialist, Vylo. Again, don't blame me. I did not provide a false definition for either. I'm also not responsible for your FALSE understanding of either of these movements.

Whose definition? Certainly not the modern progressives I've seen.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Whose definition? Certainly not the modern progressives I've seen.

Let's start with the Congressional Progressive Caucus then, Vylo: Congressional Progressive Caucus : What is CPC?

Our Caucus members promote a strong, progressive agenda, what we call “The Progressive Promise--Fairness for All”. The Progressive Promise is rooted in four core principles that embody national priorities and are consistent with the values, needs and aspirations of all the American people, not just the powerful and the privileged. They reflect a fundamental belief in government of the people, by the people, and for the people.

The four, core principles of the Progressive Promise:
1. Fighting for economic justice and security for all;
2. Protecting and preserving our civil rights and civil liberties;
3. Promoting global peace and security; and
4. Advancing environmental protection and energy independence
​

You're welcome.

 

[Grizzly]

The four, core principles of the Progressive Promise:
1. Fighting for economic justice and security for all;
2. Protecting and preserving our civil rights and civil liberties;
3. Promoting global peace and security; and
4. Advancing environmental protection and energy independence
[/INDENT]You're welcome.

Sounds good to me!