Paul Ryan on Progressivism

[NightHawkeye]

Sounds good to me!

Hi, Griz.

LOL ... let's drill down then.

1. Fighting for economic justice and security for all;

Toward a definition of economic justice > Public Interest > National Affairs

MODERN economics springs from the search for a definition of economic justice, but has largely abandoned that search. Thus, 19th-century utilitarian economists, such as John Stuart Mill, spent much of their time searching for the principles that would lead to a condition of equity. But by the 1940’s, economists reluctantly came to the conclusion that there were no economic statements that could be made about equity. In this they were in agreement with moral philosophers and other social scientists that no ethical statements can be deduced from purely factual or purely logical statements-the only two kinds of statements to be found in modern economic theory. By the 1950’s questions of economic equity were not even discussed in the basic textbooks, except to note that it was necessary for a market economy to start with a “just” distribution of economic resources. What made any such distribution “just” was left blank or was vaguely handed over to the political process.
​

[NHE shudders at the prospect of economic justice mandated by the government ...]

At least economic security has a coherent definition though: Economic security - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Economic security or financial security is the condition of having stable income or other resources to support a standard of living now and in the foreseeable future.
​

 

[Grizzly]

I always thought that "economic justice" meant things like strengthening the SEC, protecting the poor from predatory lending practices, and things of that nature.

 

[conamer]

I always thought that "economic justice" meant things like strengthening the SEC, protecting the poor from predatory lending practices, and things of that nature.

Nah, economic justice is threatening banks if they don't give mortgages to people who can't afford them(Janet Reno). Then when the whole thing falls appart and everyone's houses are under water, the same government comes in to fix all those "predatory lenders" with more regulation to fix the problem they caused and on and on. That is "social/economic justice".

 

[NightHawkeye]

Nah, economic justice is threatening banks if they don't give mortgages to people who can't afford them(Janet Reno). Then when the whole thing falls appart and everyone's houses are under water, the same government comes in to fix all those "predatory lenders" with more regulation to fix the problem they caused and on and on. That is "social/economic justice".

Thanks for the good example, conamer.

I always thought that "economic justice" meant things like strengthening the SEC, protecting the poor from predatory lending practices, and things of that nature.

In practice, it seems to be more of an explicit "redistribution of wealth".

It seems to parallel the practices of social justice, where allocations via quotas are the norm, rather than allocations being based on individual merit.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

PROGRESSIVISM roughly equates with BIG GOVERNMENT.

Then everyone is a progressive and no one is a progressive.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Then everyone is a progressive and no one is a progressive.

LOL ... Hi, Archaeopteryx.

I sense that you don't like Wikipedia's definition either.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

LOL ... Hi, Archaeopteryx.

I sense that you don't like Wikipedia's definition either.

No, I don't like your equating Progressivism with big government. It turns one man's progressive in another man's conservative, and vice versa.

 

[NightHawkeye]

No, I don't like your equating Progressivism with big government. It turns one man's progressive in another man's conservative, and vice versa.

Then, perhaps you could provide examples of Progressive "small government" initiatives?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Then, perhaps you could provide examples of Progressive "small government" initiatives?

Thanks in advance.

The term "big government" is an empty one. It depends on where you stand. Compared to an Anarchist, for example, you are "big government".

 

[FreeinChrist]

Flashback: Glenn Beck Interview With Paul Ryan From 2010 | Video | TheBlaze.com

PAUL RYAN: Right. What I have been trying to do, and if you read the entire Oklahoma speech or read my speech to Hillsdale College that they put in there on Primus Magazine, you can get them on my Facebook page, what I’ve been trying to do is indict the entire vision of progressivism because I see progressivism as the source, the intellectual source for the big government problems that are plaguing us today and so to me it’s really important to flush progressives out into the field of open debate.
GLENN: I love you.
PAUL RYAN: So people can actually see what this ideology means and where it’s going to lead us and how it attacks the American idea.
GLENN: Okay. Hang on just a second. I ‑‑ did you see my speech at CPAC?
PAUL RYAN: I’ve read it. I didn’t see it. I’ve read it, a transcript of it.
GLENN: And I think we’re saying the same thing. I call it ‑‑
PAUL RYAN: We are saying the same thing.
GLENN: It’s a cancer.
PAUL RYAN: Exactly. Look, I come from ‑‑ I’m calling you from Janesville, Wisconsin where I’m born and raised.
GLENN: Holy cow.
PAUL RYAN: Where we raise our family, 35 miles from Madison. I grew up hearing about this stuff. This stuff came from these German intellectuals to Madison‑University of Wisconsin and sort of out there from the beginning of the last century. So this is something we are familiar with where I come from. It never sat right with me. And as I grew up, I learned more about the founders and reading the Austrians and others that this is really a cancer because it basically takes the notion that our rights come from God and nature and turns it on its head and says, no, no, no, no, no, they come from government, and we here in government are here to give you your rights and therefore ration, redistribute and regulate your rights. It’s a complete affront of the whole idea of this country and that is to me what we as conservatives, or classical liberals if you want to get technical.
​

Excellent interview from 2010 ... video or transcript to read ... your choice.

Just in case anyone wanted background info on Paul Ryan.

Glenn Beck

And the Romney/Ryan campaign is whining about Obama's campaign and describing it as a campaign of hate and division. The statements above are hateful and divisive. I think Ryan is a hypocrite. Beck is just an idiot looking for headlines and money.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Glenn Beck

And the Romney/Ryan campaign is whining about Obama's campaign and describing it as a campaign of hate and division. The statements above are hateful and divisive. I think Ryan is a hypocrite. Beck is just an idiot looking for headlines and money.

Ya know, I'm just not feeling the love in your post, FreeinChrist.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Let's start with the Congressional Progressive Caucus then, Vylo: Congressional Progressive Caucus : What is CPC?

Our Caucus members promote a strong, progressive agenda, what we call “The Progressive Promise--Fairness for All”. The Progressive Promise is rooted in four core principles that embody national priorities and are consistent with the values, needs and aspirations of all the American people, not just the powerful and the privileged. They reflect a fundamental belief in government of the people, by the people, and for the people.

The four, core principles of the Progressive Promise:
1. Fighting for economic justice and security for all;
2. Protecting and preserving our civil rights and civil liberties;
3. Promoting global peace and security; and
4. Advancing environmental protection and energy independence
​

You're welcome.

Sounds good to me. The opposite of progressive is regressive. As in advocating for:
1. only a percentage have security, the rest can fall in the abyss of poverty regardless of their hard work and starve and die.
2. the return of Jim Crow laws, poll taxes, and slavery, and work to remove the vote from women.
3. global war and strife
4. pollution and dependence on limited forms of energy.


I would much rather be Progressive than the opposite

 

[FreeinChrist]

Ya know, I'm just not feeling the love in your post, FreeinChrist.

Nope. Beck is a fake and full of hot air.

Check it out:
PolitiFact | Glenn Beck's Greatest Hits (and Misses)

But I did love Jon Stewart's send ups of him.

 

[FreeinChrist]

It depends on what you mean. Progressives like to use that term to claim every good thing that's ever happened as their own. Thus, anyone who is against their ideas, for whatever reason, is "regressive." I would argue that the Progressive movement is not actually "progressive" in that sense. The Progressive Party as I know them, are neither progressive nor liberal. Going down the wrong road is not progressive. Wanting to return from that wrong path is not regressive. Giving government more power so they can "intervene" in a social problem is not liberal. That is why I prefer the term Statist, or Authoritarian, because that is far more accurate than the other two.

As for government force abolishing slavery, what do you mean? I see the Civil War as a failure in that we failed to abolish it through actual legal means rather than through brute force.

It is the Republican party that has been pushing big government in terms of women and birth control. Frankly, the government needs to stay out of the gynecologist offices and let those decisions be between patient and doctor. And wow - voter id laws disinfranchizing legal voters. That is intrusive.

 

[Ryal Kane]

From my perspective conservatism is the brake and progressivism is the accelerator. For a society to survive and evolve, you need both of them. Too much of either and things will crash.

 

[conamer]

It is the Republican party that has been pushing big government in terms of women and birth control. Frankly, the government needs to stay out of the gynecologist offices and let those decisions be between patient and doctor. And wow - voter id laws disinfranchizing legal voters. That is intrusive.

So is it big government republicans who are forcing people to pay for other people's BC and abortions? Maybe it's the yet one More contrived controversy m made up to keep people talking about the mess Obama made worse.