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Featured Paul Makes Blood Sacrifices for Love of Messiah

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by HARK!, Jun 29, 2020.

  1. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    (CLV) Ac 21:17
    Now at our coming to be in Jerusalem, the brethren welcome us with gratification.

    (CLV) Ac 21:18
    Now by the ensuing day, Paul had been in, together with us, to James. Besides, all the elders came along.

    (CLV) Ac 21:19
    And, greeting them, he unfolded, one by one, each of the things which God does among the nations through his dispensation.

    Paul reports to James and the elders of his missionary work with the heathens.

    (CLV) Ac 21:20
    Now those who hear glorified God.

    Great missionary work with your little groups of heathens Paul! Hallelu YAH!

    Besides, they said to him, "You are beholding, brother, how many tens of thousands there are among the Jews who have believed, and all are inherently zealous for the law?

    Now that you are back with the core believers; look at the tens of thousands who not only love the Torah, but are zealous for the Torah. See Paul, the core of mainstream Christianity is zealous for the Torah!

    Now we would like to have a little chat with you.

    (CLV) Ac 21:21
    Now they were instructed concerning you that you teach all the Jews among the nations apostasy from Moses,

    The body of Messiah is getting news that you are teaching the rejection of Moses, or in other words, rejection of YHWH's perfect Torah!


    telling them not to be circumcising their children,

    :: GASP! ::

    nor yet to be walking in the customs.

    :: GASP!!! ::

    Heart be still.

    (CLV) Ac 21:22
    What is it, then? Undoubtedly a multitude must come together, for they will hear that you have come.

    They might be gathering stones as we speak.

    (CLV) Ac 21:23
    This, then, which we are saying to you, do.

    So these are your orders.

    With us are four men having a vow on them.

    A Nazarite vow, very pricey, and very legalistic.

    Come along Baldilocks, you might have to sell everything you own to make this happen; but you have some proving to do. You need to prove that these rumors of you teaching against YHWH's perfect Torah are false.


    (CLV) Ac 21:24
    Taking these along, be purified together with them, and bear on their expenses, that they should be shaving their heads, and all will know that what they have been instructed concerning you is nothing, but you also are observing the elements and you yourself are maintaining the law.

    Prove to us that you are maintaining YHWH's perfect Torah, by shaving your head, and making these blood sacrifices. Prove to us that these rumors of you teaching against circumcision are false. Prove to us that you are a Christian.
     
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  2. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    Excellent narrative!!!
     
  3. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Paul had to conform to Jewish customs in order to work among the Jews, yet some of the Jews wanted him dead. They disobeying teachings against against murder. Blood sacrifices do not make a man righteous. Israel does not maintain the daily sacrifice to this day, because they too have rejected these Torah laws, else they would obey them.

    When Paul was in Rome he met with the Jews to explain the Gospel teachings:

    Acts 28:23 When they had appointed him a day, many people came to him at his lodging. He explained to them, testifying about God’s Kingdom, and persuading them concerning Jesus, both from the law of Moses and from the prophets, from morning until evening. 24 Some believed the things which were spoken, and some disbelieved. 25 When they didn’t agree among themselves, they departed after Paul had spoken one word, “The Holy Spirit spoke rightly through Isaiah the prophet to our fathers, 26 saying,

    ‘Go to this people and say,
    in hearing, you will hear,
    but will in no way understand.
    In seeing, you will see,
    but will in no way perceive.
    27 For this people’s heart has grown callous.
    Their ears are dull of hearing.
    Their eyes they have closed.
    Lest they should see with their eyes,
    hear with their ears,
    understand with their heart,
    and would turn again,
    then I would heal them.’Isaiah 6:9-10

    28 “Be it known therefore to you, that the salvation of God is sent to the nations, and they will listen.” (World English Bible)

    Paul went to teach among the Gentiles and God has blessed believing Gentiles for their faith.
     
  4. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Paul wasn't working among the Jews in this passage. The work in Israel was done by the 12 Apostles, 11 of which Yahshua appointed himself, and Matthias who replaced Judas. Paul is being tested by his leaders.
     
  5. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Paul had collected money for the Jewish saints in Jerusalem. He was taking money to them before he was arrested. There are Jews in Israel and Jews of the Diaspora. Paul mainly worked in Asia, Greece, Macedonia, etc. Paul was Jewish as were Apollos, Timothy, and Barnabas. I am not sure about Luke.

    In 66 AD Israel rebelled against the Roman occupation. The taxes were very heavy on them. They ignored teachings against murder and attacked Roman military units few in number. Soon many more Roman cohorts arrived in Caesarea. The Romans took back cities in the north. In 70 AD Jews were going to Jerusalem to observe the Passover as required by Jewish law. The Roman army started to surround the city full of a Passover attendees. The Christian historian named Eusebius wrote about Christian Jews in Jerusalem remembering Jesus’ prophesy warning them to flee if they will see Jerusalem surrounded by armies (Luke 21). They fled to Pella in the mountains of Jordan. The Romans besieged Jerusalem. They built siege walls. They used catapults and battering rams. Many people in Jerusalem starved to death. As soon as the wall was breached, the Romans executed all who opposed them. They kept some of the young as slaves. The Romans destroyed the Herodian temple and burned the city as recorded by the Jewish historian Josephus. About 40 years after Jesus was executed, Jerusalem was heaps of burned out ruins such as happened in war because people did not believe teachings against murder.
     
  6. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    This is an example of Jews who are not believers.. Back in Jerusalem, you have Jews who are believers. Two different scenarios.
     
  7. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    I don't think anybody here finds Paul going to the Temple while in Jerusalem, making offerings and Nazarite vow taking shocking.



    1 Corinthians 9:19–23
    [​IMG]English Standard Version[​IMG]
    though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them. To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some. that I may share with them in its blessings.



    Besides all that Paul was a zealous Jew by his own admission, the shadows/ types of the temple were useful teaching devices, and it was a place where crowds would gather for witnessing etc.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
  8. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What does any of this have to do with the OP.

    By the way. Timothy wasn't Jewish.
     
  9. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    People seem to be enamored with that mistranslated verse.

    It carries a much different meaning when literally translated.

    (CLV) 1Co 9:21
    to those without law as without law (not being without God's law, but legally Christ's), that I should be gaining those without law.

    Contrary to popular belief, James, the other 11 Apostles, and the elders, were not some random Jews that Paul needed to save. They were saved before he was. They were his headship.
     
  10. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Timothy’s mother was Jewish. That is enough evidence of Jewishness to gain citizenship in modern Israel. Paul circumcised Timothy. That makes more proof of Jewishness, although the Muslims circumcise and are not considered Jewish.
     
  11. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Timothy wasn't Jewish according to the Torah. Modern Israel (the State) doesn't follow the Torah. It's a secular state.

    That's even if we mean the same thing by Jewish; but I'm not going down that bunny hole in this thread. Let's get back on topic.
     
  12. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I am not sure if this is of any use to you; the Romans had laws against stealing, murder, fraud, slander etc. The apostles added laws against sexual immorality, eating blood, meat sacrificed to idols, etc. so the Gentiles might have a better chance.
     
  13. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Torah is a thin book. Herod was descended from converts to Judaism and no one was wanting to tell him he was not Jewish. John the Baptist was beheaded for saying Herod’s marriage was illegitimate.
     
  14. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    These laws weren't added by the Apostles. James pulled that right out of the Torah.


    (CLV) Ac 15:20
    but to write an epistle to them to be abstaining from ceremonial pollution with idols, and prostitution, and what is strangled, and blood.



    Leviticus 17
    7 No longer shall they sacrifice their sacrifices to hairy goat-demons after whom they have been prostituting. An eonian statute shall this become for them throughout their generations. 8 To them you shall say:Any man from the house of Israel or from the sojourners who sojourn in your midst who should offer an ascent offering or a sacrifice 9 and not bring it to the opening of the tent of appointment to offer it to Yahweh, that man will be cut off from his kinsmen. 10 As for any man from the house of Israel and from the sojourners sojourning in your midst who should eat any blood, I will set My face against the soul eating blood, and I will cut him off from among his people, 11 for the soul of the flesh, it is in the blood, and I Myself have assigned it to you to make a propitiatory shelter over your souls on the altar; for the blood, in the soul it makes a propitiatory shelter. 12 Therefore I say to the sons of Israel:No soul at all of you shall eat blood; nor shall the sojourner sojourning in your midst eat blood. 13 Any man from the sons of Israel and from the sojourners sojourning in your midst who hunt a game animal or a flyer which may be eaten will pour out its blood and cover it with soil, 14 for the soul of all flesh is its blood; as its soul is it. So I said to the sons of Israel:The blood of any flesh you shall not eat, for the soul of all flesh, it is its blood. Everyone eating it shall be cut off.

    This was the bare minimum for the Ger Toshav, as they respected the Torah. James was reaffirming that the new seekers were meeting the bare minimum, as they learned Torah every Shabbat, in their efforts to convert to Christianity.
     
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  15. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Herod was not the rightful King. Yahshua was. Herod was not a descendant of David.

    The Priesthood had also been corrupted. The high Priesthood was not held by the rightful heirs. They had been ousted; and according to modern scholarship, were practicing at Qumran. John the Baptist was of legitimate heritage to be the rightful High Priest; and he was Baptizing in the wilderness, right near Qumran.

    Coincidence?
     
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  16. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have been to Qumran. They had a video or film in English suggesting John the Baptist had visited Qumran. I read a book of their sectarian scrolls translated and that also reminded me of John the Baptist.

    Both Jesus and John quoted Isaiah. John described himself according to Isaiah 40:3 The voice of one who calls out, “Prepare the way of Yahweh in the wilderness! Make a level highway in the desert for our God.” (WEB)
     
  17. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Bethabara (/bɛθˈæbərə/ beth-AB-ər-ə; בית עברה; bēt ‛ăbārāh; Βηθαβαρά; Bēthabará; "house of the Ford, place of crossing") is the name used by some versions of the New Testament for the site "beyond (i.e. east of) the Jordan" where John the Baptist preached and performed baptisms, where he met with a group of priests and Levites sent by the Pharisees to investigate his ministry, and where he baptised Jesus (Yeshua).Madaba Map and in the Talmud.

    800px-Sapsaphas_Madaba.jpg

    The Madaba Map, also known as the Madaba Mosaic Map, is part of a floor mosaic in the early Byzantine church of Saint George in Madaba, Jordan. The Madaba Map is of the Middle East, and part of it contains the oldest surviving original cartographic depiction of the Holy Land and especially Jerusalem. It dates to the 6th century AD.

    Madaba Map - Wikipedia
     
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  18. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The traditional site of Jesus’ baptism is on Google Earth. It is about 8 miles from Qumran and 5 miles from Jericho.

    In John 3, John was baptizing at Aenon near Salim:
    22 After these things, Jesus came with his disciples into the land of Judea. He stayed there with them and baptized. 23 John also was baptizing in Enon near Salim, because there was much water there. They came, and were baptized.

    This area near Salim is supposed to be south of Beth Shean.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
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  19. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Supporter

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    (CLV) Isa 56:7
    I will bring them also to My holy mountain And make them rejoice in My house of prayer; Their ascent offerings and their sacrifices They shall offer up for acceptance on My altar, For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.

    (CLV) Zch 14:16
    And it will come to be that everyone left of all the nations coming against Jerusalem, they will also go up, as often as year by year, to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, and to celebrate the festival of booths.

    (CLV) Zch 14:17
    And it will come, whoever shall not go up from the families of the earth, to Jerusalem to worship the King, Yahweh of hosts, then the downpour shall not come on them.

    (CLV) Zch 14:18
    And if a family of Egypt shall not go up, and will not come, then it will not be on them; there shall come the stroke with which Yahweh shall strike the nations which will not go up to celebrate »the festival of booths.

    (CLV) Zch 14:19
    This shall be the sin of Egypt, and the sin of all the nations which will not go up to celebrate the festival of booths.
     
  20. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I shall not fly to Jerusalem to celebrate the festival of booths. Salvation is from God, not in attending a religious festival in Jerusalem. Jesus is salvation, not Jerusalem tourism.
     
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