Paul I:5 teaches us:

[@@Paul@@]

but your my hero, who else would I copy?

I'm just a humble servant like youself.

OK, i think i've booby-trapped this thread enough.

 

[herev]

I'm just a humble servant like youself.

OK, i think i've booby-trapped this thread enough.

It may have needed a break

 

[Crazy Liz]

cool!

I never thought about using the img code to import smilies from another forum.

Even our old rolleyes!

 

[TwinCrier]

What IS the topic of this thread anyhow?

 

[Crazy Liz]

What IS the topic of this thread anyhow?

If you'd like to get back on topic, you're free to respond to the OP, Twin.

 

[MarkAnthony]

One Hundred and Sixty people have viewed this thread. I have expressed my point of view to them as well. Although I find your humor in this thread to be
quite articulate in the use of smiley's ....I felt my heart sigh at the lack of respect that you have shown the HOLY SPIRIT in this serious topic.

The others read my thread and probably did not want to comment too. If you asked me a closed parish is equal to bulldozing it less the financial benefit of selling or use of the building to the new owner. Had the Catholic Church bulldozed the first church and defrocked the priests that committed sexual crimes there would have been a lot of people and money saved...just a thought.

Did you ever think about the other people who are listening to me and not your responses? I hope that they find a way to bulldoze you too!

 

[herev]

One Hundred and Sixty people have viewed this thread. I have expressed my point of view to them as well. Although I find your humor in this thread to be
quite articulate in the use of smiley's ....I felt my heart sigh at the lack of respect that you have shown the HOLY SPIRIT in this serious topic.

The others read my thread and probably did not want to comment too. If you asked me a closed parish is equal to bulldozing it less the financial benefit of selling or use of the building to the new owner. Had the Catholic Church bulldozed the first church and defrocked the priests that committed sexual crimes there would have been a lot of people and money saved...just a thought.

Did you ever think about the other people who are listening to me and not your responses? I hope that they find a way to bulldoze you too!

Fr MarkAnthony:
I guess we all have a human side--that side wants to say lighten up, but the rest of me says, I meant no disrespect to you or the HOly Spirit.
your thread got my attention as it is something I am interested in, but in post 1, it became about gays only, not the overall concept of disfellowship for sinners. By post 4, I knew where you stood, but still not what you were looking for. By post 9, I knew you weren't interested in listening to others' views unless they were in line with your own. By post 13, I knew that not only are you making gays the subject, but that you promote not even showing compassion--even Jesus wept when he looked at the lost of Jerusalem. Since then, I've been waiting for someone to chime in that would merit a response.

As for me, I costantly struggle with the verses you quoted from Paul. I wonder how to apply this in our churches today. Most people who want to apply it (though Twin showed otherwise) have narrowed their focus down to a few sins--not all of them. James tells us that if we are guilty of breaking one part of the law, we are guilty on all counts, so I find it difficult with my obviously limited understanding at this point to know how to choose. Do I support Gay marriages--NO. Do I support sin? NO. Do I confront it where it is clear? YES. Do I disfellowship people? NO.
So, there's an answer. So please forgive my transgression (if it was a sin, I suppose you should disfellowship me?)
Rev. Tommy

 

[MarkAnthony]

Any priest that is in touch with the Lord will stand behind you on this. Any priest that has compassion for HOMOSEXUALS and is willing to risk his house or his flock is a fool. This has been proven over and over lately. Please accept my apology for preaching today, I merely want us all to learn a lesson from the Catholic Church Crisis and the Gay Marriage fallout. Don't fall into the ditch![/QUOTE]

Rev. TOMMY said
"By post 13, I knew that not only are you making gays the subject, but that you promote not even showing compassion--even Jesus wept when he looked at the lost of Jerusalem. Since then, I've been waiting for someone to chime in that would merit a response."

He cried for their sins...he did not put GAYS in charge of JERUSALEM....This is my thread....you can not railroad my words to all sinners. I specifically target GAY MARRIAGE AND HOMOSEXUAL BEHAVIOR. It should be wept over too..But this form of sin should not exist in the BODY OF CHRIST. I have implied before that THEY need to repent before they can be a part of the church again. I did not say throw them out forever. My compassion is for the CHURCH as well.
They have the choice to serve GOD and be celebates without any sex or marry the opposite sex and be accepted by GOD that is all.
Sorry TOMMY but this is not a perfect world as you know. When a person sins they can go to confession and be a part of the BODY OF CHRIST again. Physically asking them not to show up until they are willing to repent(CHANGE) and cease this form of sin is not unreasonable. Having a sexual devil in your house is like asking a wolf to come into the fold. It is a firm position but it is also our elders position as Paul's letter so clearly points out.

 

[Rev. Smith]

Any priest that is in touch with the Lord will stand behind you on this. Any priest that has compassion for HOMOSEXUALS and is willing to risk his house or his flock is a fool. This has been proven over and over lately. Please accept my apology for preaching today, I merely want us all to learn a lesson from the Catholic Church Crisis and the Gay Marriage fallout. Don't fall into the ditchthat

THEY need to repent before they can be a part of the church again. I did not say throw them out forever. My compassion is for the CHURCH as well.
They have the choice to serve GOD and be celebates without any sex or marry the opposite sex and be accepted by GOD that is all.
Sorry TOMMY but this is not a perfect world as you know. When a person sins they can go to confession and be a part of the BODY OF CHRIST again. Physically asking them not to show up until they are willing to repent(CHANGE) and cease this form of sin is not unreasonable. Having a sexual devil in your house is like asking a wolf to come into the fold. It is a firm position but it is also our elders position as Paul's letter so clearly points out.

Brother, you do know that you are out of step with the teaching of your own Church don't you? The Church teaches that homosexuals are to be treted with dignity and respect, and be brought to repentance and chastity with patience?

Before we start tossing people out of our churches shouldn't we sit down and ask them why they are there in the first place? If a Gay person says to me becasue they want to come to the Lord, then I will work with thim to embrace chastity. I need to know that it will happen in the Lord's time, not mine. If they start explaining to me how I got it all wrong and gay sex is somehow ok, I'll work with them for a while to see if I can turn their thinking around, failing that I'll refer them to a more "inclusive" fellowship.

In the USA today people seeking the Lord is rare enough that I would think long and hard before turning them away, they are far more likly to come to true faith and repentance in the church then they are outside of it.

 

[herev]

Any priest that is in touch with the Lord will stand behind you on this. Any priest that has compassion for HOMOSEXUALS and is willing to risk his house or his flock is a fool. This has been proven over and over lately. Please accept my apology for preaching today, I merely want us all to learn a lesson from the Catholic Church Crisis and the Gay Marriage fallout. Don't fall into the ditch![/QUOTE]

Rev. TOMMY said
"By post 13, I knew that not only are you making gays the subject, but that you promote not even showing compassion--even Jesus wept when he looked at the lost of Jerusalem. Since then, I've been waiting for someone to chime in that would merit a response."

He cried for their sins...he did not put GAYS in charge of JERUSALEM....This is my thread....you can not railroad my words to all sinners. I specifically target GAY MARRIAGE AND HOMOSEXUAL BEHAVIOR. It should be wept over too..But this form of sin should not exist in the BODY OF CHRIST. I have implied before that THEY need to repent before they can be a part of the church again. I did not say throw them out forever. My compassion is for the CHURCH as well.
They have the choice to serve GOD and be celebates without any sex or marry the opposite sex and be accepted by GOD that is all.
Sorry TOMMY but this is not a perfect world as you know. When a person sins they can go to confession and be a part of the BODY OF CHRIST again. Physically asking them not to show up until they are willing to repent(CHANGE) and cease this form of sin is not unreasonable. Having a sexual devil in your house is like asking a wolf to come into the fold. It is a firm position but it is also our elders position as Paul's letter so clearly points out.

as you say, it is YOUR thread, please forgive the interruption. We now return you to your previously scheduled program--already in progress.

 

[MarkAnthony]

Brother, you do know that you are out of step with the teaching of your own Church don't you? The Church teaches that homosexuals are to be treted with dignity and respect, and be brought to repentance and chastity with patience? Out of step with the church? Who cares ...as long as I am in step with my LORD JESUS and his Brother Paul I will not get lost. The "CHURCH" is lost. It is in a crisis. They did not listen to JESUS. Zero tolerance to this kind of sin is a firm definition of the sin and it does not prevent a GAY from turning to the LORD.

Before we start tossing people out of our churches shouldn't we sit down and ask them why they are there in the first place? If a Gay person says to me becasue they want to come to the Lord, then I will work with thim to embrace chastity. I need to know that it will happen in the Lord's time, not mine. If they start explaining to me how I got it all wrong and gay sex is somehow ok, I'll work with them for a while to see if I can turn their thinking around, failing that I'll refer them to a more "inclusive" fellowship.So here you provide help which is okay...but outside of the BODY of CHRIST. They need to be completely on the outside until they realize their position. A mother or father's discipline to a child sometimes has to be this way.... you have to have zero tolerance. GOD taught us this too many times. He will not tolerate and he chastises his son to strengthen him. If a child sexually abuses another child what would you do? Remove them from other children and offer counceling. Once the child sees that he or she has acted wrongfully and shows remorse they are on the road to recovery.
These adult/children of GOD have done this. It is our duty to remove them from the fold and offer the assistance you have described.

In the USA today people seeking the Lord is rare enough that I would think long and hard before turning them away, they are far more likly to come to true faith and repentance in the church then they are outside of it.

Again, you are wrong in my opinion. The cornerstone story has helped a lot of sinners repent. A lot of Repented will not stay with the church if it is closed and sold or corrupted because of this form of immorality dwelling in the BODY of CHRIST. They know that it is not the true cornerstone. Most people would seek the LORD if they realize that they are outside of it and not accepted by it. People generally want to be loved by others and GOD. If something happened in their life that hardened their heart it can be removed by them and GOD. What sense does it make to not do this? People usually want what they don't have. And if you give them the church and her people you are removing the stumbling block that GOD has placed in their life to overcome their sin. JESUS needs to be their cornerstone. They need to accept him personally as their savior before they can be part of the body.They need to repent before they can be accepted back into the flock.

 

[Ainesis]

can I do that?

Hey, that's cool, didn't know I could import them!

Import them form where? I am still confused about where people are getting these cool smilies?

 

[Ainesis]

This enlightenment must have come from God.

Oh, brother....! LOL

Can someone please enlighten me? How do you get these other smilies?
Some help for the technically challeneged please?

 

[Ainesis]

We sure should. My church revoked the membership of two people who were unrepentantly and openly sinning. Not homosexuals, but they were asked not to return unless they renounced their sin. While the church has no way of knowing all the sins it's members commit, we need to take action when that sin is done unashamedly in public.

I agree.

 

[Ainesis]

What is at issue is the fact there exists tolerance in Christ's church for GAY lifestyles. If a Church in itself is in agreement with the GAY position then it is outside of the Body of Christ.

MarkAnthony,

I agree with much of what you have said. Any church that is in agreement with any sin is outside of the Body of Christ.

However, I am a bit perplexed about how you square this with the catholic church. Should we not consider the fact that the RCC has a significant problem with this in the ranks of its ordained body? Should we not consider organized efforts of covering up, hiding, and failing to report instances of this within the church paramount to tacit agreement? How many priests have been deflocked for being homosexuals?


I post this not to bash the RCC, but to inquire into your own logic here which seems at odds with the reality of your church's position. Also to note that, while I agree with your position here, what is our response required to be as Christians to address the issue?

 

[MarkAnthony]

[font=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]FOCUS OF THE MINISTRY[/font]

​

[font=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]ZZZZZZ Ministries is uniquely called to deal with very specific problems in the Body of Christ. First of all, recognizing that the local church is the bedrock for all Christian growth and that every Christian should establish strong family ties with other Christians in order to grow in grace and to learn discipline and faithfulness. Also, we recognize that at this time, we face the onslaught of the One World System of the Antichrist, the New Age, Far Eastern mysticism, witchcraft, sorcery, false religion, paganism, homosexuality, feminism, the spirit of Jezebel, the spirit of Ahab and manipulation and control in the Church.

The Bible says in Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I will send Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."

This ministry's chief purpose is to help in the process of turning the hearts of all Christians back to the fathers. The hearts of God's spiritual children have been turned away from their heavenly Father just as the natural children of the earth have had their hearts turned from their natural fathers. Without a strong tie between fathers and children, we will never realize the fullness of a Godly relationship and come to trust and know God as our Eternal Father. We must be restored to our place of righteousness and peace as members of our Eternal Father's family through His son, Jesus Christ.
[/font]

[font=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]<B>

<H2>[font=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]ZZZZZ MINISTRIES' VISION[/font]</H2>​

<H5 align=left>[font=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]Organize and build a fully operational ministries center designed to bring the sick, downcast, broken and distraught person in the front door and through the ministry of the Word of God to see that person healed and made whole. [/font]​

​

[font=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]Take those that Satan has tried to destroy and restore their souls so that the Spirit of God can dwell there instead of Satan's evil, defiling influences. [/font]

​

[font=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]Apply the Word of God to regenerate and transform these individuals through a born-again experience.[/font]

​

[font=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]Send them forth as Soldiers of Light to destroy the individual that once held them captive - Satan![/font]

​

</B>[/font]</H5>[font=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif][/font]

[font=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif][/font]

[font=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]I am so glad that I was asked these questions from you. First, let me offer my position on the Christian role as a Christian offering services. A ministry like this should take them in, heal them and send them out to the world healed. A family that has the FATHER in their midst does not [/font]need to be exposed to evil. A hospital quarantines the sick patient so as not to spread the disease to others. A spiritual illness can spread and this is why your healing ministries need to quarantine the sick and offer care away from otherwise healthy (but not perfect) Christians...especially families with children. Like the good samaritan, the injured was taken to an inn to receive help, not to the samaritan's home. [font=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]

[/font]​

 

[Ainesis]

[font=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]FOCUS OF THE MINISTRY[/font]

[font=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]ZZZZZZ Ministries is uniquely called to deal with very specific problems in the Body of Christ. First of all, recognizing that the local church is the bedrock for all Christian growth and that every Christian should establish strong family ties with other Christians in order to grow in grace and to learn discipline and faithfulness. Also, we recognize that at this time, we face the onslaught of the One World System of the Antichrist, the New Age, Far Eastern mysticism, witchcraft, sorcery, false religion, paganism, homosexuality, feminism, the spirit of Jezebel, the spirit of Ahab and manipulation and control in the Church.


The Bible says in Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I will send Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."

This ministry's chief purpose is to help in the process of turning the hearts of all Christians back to the fathers. The hearts of God's spiritual children have been turned away from their heavenly Father just as the natural children of the earth have had their hearts turned from their natural fathers. Without a strong tie between fathers and children, we will never realize the fullness of a Godly relationship and come to trust and know God as our Eternal Father. We must be restored to our place of righteousness and peace as members of our Eternal Father's family through His son, Jesus Christ.
[/font]



<B>[font=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]<B>

<H2>[font=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]ZZZZZ MINISTRIES' VISION[/font]</H2>​

<H5 align=left>[font=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]Organize and build a fully operational ministries center designed to bring the sick, downcast, broken and distraught person in the front door and through the ministry of the Word of God to see that person healed and made whole. [/font]</B>
​

[font=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]Take those that Satan has tried to destroy and restore their souls so that the Spirit of God can dwell there instead of Satan's evil, defiling influences. [/font]​

[font=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]Apply the Word of God to regenerate and transform these individuals through a born-again experience.[/font]​

[font=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]Send them forth as Soldiers of Light to destroy the individual that once held them captive - Satan![/font][/font]​

​

LOL!!!

Mark, At first I thought this was your church's statement of beliefs. It took me quite some time to realize these are the beliefs of the church I attend. Guess I should be more familiar with them, huh?

Also, I am not sure why you posted that here, but let me say that I do agree with that statement of faith.

[font=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]I am so glad that I was asked these questions from you. First, let me offer my position on the Christian role as a Christian offering services. A ministry like this should take them in, heal them and send them out to the world healed. A family that has the FATHER in their midst does not [/font]need to be exposed to evil. A hospital quarantines the sick patient so as not to spread the disease to others. A spiritual illness can spread and this is why your healing ministries need to quarantine the sick and offer care away from otherwise healthy (but not perfect) Christians...especially families with children. Like the good samaritan, the injured was taken to an inn to receive help, not to the samaritan's home.

I understand your response, and I think that is fair. An interesting analogy you propose with the "hospital" and the "samaritan at the inn." Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[MarkAnthony]

The POPE and the Vatican have been restructuring the Church worldwide to
remove priests from their churches and churches from their communities as an attempt to purify the communities where Homosexuality and perversions have invaded CHRIST'S BODY. Many people are in an uproar because they no longer have their physical church or school around the corner. The time of grieving the past is almost through. Once the purified BODY is blessed by the HOLY SPIRIT again it will remain on a straight and firm ground to JESUS CHRIST.

If the right hand offends thee cut it off... The legal process is delicate and slow as assets and globalization of the Church constantly needs to be kept in scrutiny to protect the innocent. Those communities that have lost a parish gain a parish and a new life out of the restructuring. Schools also are strengthened as a result of combining two or more lesser financial organizations to one superior and fruitfall organization. The initial grief and change is an inertia that will be proven to be a passing for the better. No one likes change, but it is essential to the growth of the Church.

Those priests that are HOMOSEXUALS are outside the BODY OF CHRIST and offer no benefit to the people until they repent and reenter the CHURCH as regular members. Any service offered by them is blessed only by GOD and since the cup was not clean that does not mean that the inside was not.
However, knowing that the cup is not clean does not make it right. The dirty cup should be washed so that those who come in contact with the cup are not in jeopardy of filth. The priests have defrocked themselves from the BODY and as they are accounted for their honor has become stained and they are no longer of service or use to the BODY. In fact, Only the HOLY and clean now share the honor of serving the LORD as PRIESTS. The Pontiff is attempting to clean the churches cup. The ranks have been defiled from the bottom up.
JESUS CHRIST will judge the offenders. We are not able to know the internal policy of the Vatican.

Cardinal Law for example is blamed for the filthy cup of his past. He however may not be defiled. Why mix old wine with new? Every Priest needs to be baptized in the SPIRIT again. The tolerance of the Roman Catholic Church of the past has stained itself. Innocent until proven guilty yet we blame a Father for the fact his sons were HOMOSEXUAL? I say wrong. I say pray for the Father that he brings his lost sheep home to CHRIST. Cardinal Law is a good Shepherd. He can not be blamed for the lost sheep and their downfall. If he had not recognized merging of the wolves with the flock it is because of the craftiness of the wolves and their own pack not the sheep and the shepherd. Imagine if people around the Cardinal were also corrupt in the system. Is it his place to send them outside of the flock? I say no. And if the Vatican had knowledge and did not act where should they be sent? Outside the flock.
What a beautiful day it is when the flock is more important to GOD than the Shepherd. The Vatican officials will be exposed if they are guilty during the cleansing process. GOD will place them outside the flock. I pray that the sheep hear the master's voice. I pray that the HOLY SPIRIT will cleanse the BODY of CHRIST and purge it's evil. No one is exempt. Death has no mercy.

 

[newname]

We, all members of the church, the Body of Christ, are members because God has allowed it.

We are not members of Christ because it was allowed by "man".

If the church is speaking "truth", not just watered down truth, but all the truth, given by the Holy Spirit, those that reject truth will not remain among the speakers of truth, their conscience will not tolerate it.

It is God who weeds the "tares" among the wheat. We speak the truth and pray that all in the church comes "unto repentance".

The world does what the world does and we can not change that, only God can change hearts.

IF the "leaders" of the churches or the "evangilist" would start speaking "Repent" for the kingdom of God is at hand" and not "come to church if you want some comfort, socializing, acceptance, etc... We would not have "the world" in our church.

For those "called" to the kingdom of God, should hear "Repent" and their conscience would guide them to the churches, and they would have the desire to please God and would desire to "obey" and understand what God's laws are.

Jesus sat among the sinners, and one sin is not "worse" than any other. We must speak truth, and it's the truth, by the Holy Spirit that weeds those that "love unrighteouness" from those that love righteousness.

We are "members of the church" ONLY because God has "called" us to the kingdom of God, ONLY God knows who are true members and who are not.

speaking truth by the Holy Spirit, serving Jesus Christ and God, our Heavenly Father, -newname

 

[MarkAnthony]

Then why do we need preachers and priests,healers and those that speak tongues? If we are all members of the BODY and no sin is worse than the other are you saying that the BODY can be sinful? I say no, the true BODY of CHRIST is pure and there has been death to sin on account of the fact that CHRIST died for our sins and opened our eyes to eternal life.

If you are truly in the BODY of CHRIST you have been called and you have repented and you respect your gifts and use them wisely. You have been blessed if you are in the BODY of CHRIST and your life will show this. A person who attends mass or church and who has sin has not repented and is not in the BODY OF CHRIST. A person who has no sin because he or she has repented and does not attend church but prays and practices daily to GOD and JESUS CHRIST is more in the BODY OF CHRIST than a regular churchgoer that offers the LORD lipservice.

True that man does not determine who is in the BODY except himself because GOD would reject no sinner that has repented and turned to the LIGHT.