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It's a shame that that happens.
QFT! Just read the Gospels about the scribes and Pharisees.But he hates self righteousness, one is cut off if they are.
4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified[a] by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
Law breeds pride, i got text to prove it, if you want.
QFT! Just read the Gospels about the scribes and Pharisees.
Paul's on-the-record statement to Messianic Jews --
Acts 21
20 And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.
(Many here would argue - "yeah... that is EXACTLY what Paul was doing!" - Paul goes out of his way to disprove it.
22 What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.
23 Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow;
24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law.
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I am not sure but it looks like your posts advocates circumcision, is that right?
read this on Acts 21, then offer a sound rebuttal.
Pro law people love to shout out happily
Paul went to the Temple and took the ritual!
Lol they forget that he did not go to Jerusalem for 14 years as per Gal 2:1, which says again, presumably after the Peter visit of Gal 1:18, 3 years after Pauls conversion, and it was for just 15 days
the Greek for forsake Moses, same word used in Thessalonians about the Antichrist, serious accusation. Did Paul preach it was ok to commit adultery or steal? No.
When we point to Acts 17:11 and the sola-scriptura model of scripture seen in action - "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE if those things spoken by the Apostle Paul -- were So" we often hear that sort of "complaint" from members of denominations that would prefer not to follow the sola-scriptura method of testing doctrine.
I think the GT section will show that point in triplicate.
Interesting how the anti-law groups would like to toss out Acts --- except when trying to get Acts 10 to be about rat sandwiches.
in Christ,
Bob
You prove my point well.
If you hold strictly that Gentiles were only required to follow these four laws, then that would exclude that commands of Jesus. However, if you hold that this was obviously not an exhaustive list, then I'd agree with you. It appears to me to be a specific list for a particular purpose, namely to give a minimum standard that Gentiles would need to keep in order to make a clean break from paganism and to have fellowship with Jews and community meals.
Acts 19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. 21 For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.
In Jewish literature, the Jews realized that they had a lot of laws and that they shouldn't be meticulous with new converts. If an employer were to hire a new employee, they wouldn't start by making sure they learned everything they would ever need to know about the job upfront, but rather they would teach them the basics with the understanding that they would continue to learn the rest on the job. Similarly, they didn't want to make it too difficult for new Gentile converts, so they started them off with just the basics with the understanding that they would continue to learn how to behave by hearing Moses taught about every Sabbath in the synagogues.
No the whole affair is to placate Jewish believers. It isn't to prove Paul has been teaching new converts to keep the law.I quote Acts 21 and find this response to Acts 21. Is it affirmation or rebuttal?
Interesting response.
In Acts 21 the whole point is to PROVE that what Paul has been doing and teaching on his missionary journey is consistent - -not hypocrisy
Is that even the question asked in the Acts 21 text at all???
No.
How then does it address Acts 21??
in Christ,
Bob
So what law do you claim is written on the heart? Why is it necessary to tell them anything?Specifically: 'It is the decision of the holy Spirit and of us not to place on you any burden beyond these necessities, namely, to abstain from meat sacrificed to idols, from blood, from meats of strangled animals, and from unlawful marriage. If you keep free of these, you will be doing what is right. Farewell.' Acts 15:28-29
The text does not tell Gentiles to Love their neighbor as themselves , or not to take God's name in vain. Nor does Acts 15 tell gentile Christians to Love God with all their heart, nor to honor their parents.
Yet in later NT writings they are told that "of course" all of these commandments apply to Christian gentiles as they do to Jews.
In Acts 15:1 the subject - the debate - is very specifically over the supposed need of Gentiles to be circumcised as full converts to Judaism as Eph 2 points out - in that case.
It is not at all about downsizing the Law of God so that Love for God and Love for your neighbor are no longer required.
Note also that Acts 15 includes the Lev 17 Law against eating meat with blood in it.
And in Acts 15 - James argues the point of Acts 13, and Acts 17, and Acts 18 that these gentiles hear the Bible in the synagogues every Sabbath so that not becoming full converts to Judaism will not deprive them of that Bible instruction.
in Christ,
Bob
Surely you must be in Seattle.Those who walk by the Spirit - in Romans 8 fulfill the Law in real life - those at war with God in Romans 8 - do not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed CAN they submit to it according to Paul.
In Mark 7:6-13 Jesus describes the Commandments of God being set aside by the traditions of man - and say it is "not a good thing" to do.
In Jer 31:31-33 it is the Law of God that Jeremiah knows as the moral law of God - the Law that defines what sin is - that is written on the heart and mind under the NEW Covenant- also quoted in Heb 8 and 10.
As Paul states in 1Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"
And Christ said - before the cross - "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"
Paul says that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST Commandment with a promise"
in Christ,
Bob
No the whole affair is to placate Jewish believers. It isn't to prove Paul has been teaching new converts to keep the law.
Haven't you posted part of exegesis is context?
bugkiller
Christian church leaders like James were addressing what they consider a false accusation being made against the Apostle Paul.
21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.
They suggest some solution to the problem with this conclusion
vs 24...so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law.
Your post isn't advocating circumcision? Why does it say the words shown in bold sienna? Why does your post say "(Many here would argue - "yeah... that is EXACTLY what Paul was doing!" - Paul goes out of his way to disprove it.)" right after saint Luke wrote "you [Paul] are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children"? And why does it leave out the following verse which says Acts 21:25 "As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication."I am not sure but it looks like your posts advocates circumcision, is that right?Paul's on-the-record statement to Messianic Jews --
Acts 21:20 And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.
(Many here would argue - "yeah... that is EXACTLY what Paul was doing!" - Paul goes out of his way to disprove it.)22 What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow; 24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law.
Paul's on-the-record statement to Messianic Jews --
Acts 21
20 And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.
(Many here would argue - "yeah... that is EXACTLY what Paul was doing!" - Paul goes out of his way to disprove it.
22 What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.
23 Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow;
24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law.
.
My quote is just a quote of Acts 21 - it looks like your post is claiming that Acts 21 is advocating circumcision -- is that right?
Your post isn't advocating circumcision? Why does it say the words shown in bold sienna?
Why does your post say "(Many here would argue - "yeah... that is EXACTLY what Paul was doing!" - Paul goes out of his way to disprove it.)"
right after saint Luke wrote "you [Paul] are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children"?
And why does it leave out the following verse which says Acts 21:25 "As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication."
And why do you assert that saint Paul goes out of his way to disprove it?
Didn't saint Paul write:"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Romans 2:28-29)
Thus saint Paul dismisses circumcision as having any value under the new covenant in Christ.
And saint Paul also wrote:"Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised. Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called." (1 Corinthians 7:18-20)It is beyond doubt that it is God who commanded circumcision of Abraham and the Jews;
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