Paul confessing that he keeps the Law.

[cyberlizard]

do you have the Spirit as a pledge? [Yes / No]

Have you recieved your downpayment? [Yes / No]

Have all things been placed under Messiah's feet yet? [Yes / No]

Is the word of the Lord currently going out from Jerusalem? [Yes / No]

Does the knowledge of the Lord cover the earth like waters cover the sea? [Yes / No]

Have our hearts of stone (stiffness, stubborness and outright rebellion) been taken away yet? [Yes / No]

Have we stopped sinning? [Yes / No]

If these things have not yet happened, then we are still in the age of the downpayent/security/pledge/dowry.

The New Covenant has not been fully inaugurated, the wedding march is being played but the groom has yet to kiss the bride.

 

[Frogster]

do you have the Spirit as a pledge? [Yes / No]

Have you recieved your downpayment? [Yes / No]

Have all things been placed under Messiah's feet yet? [Yes / No]

Is the word of the Lord currently going out from Jerusalem? [Yes / No]

Does the knowledge of the Lord cover the earth like waters cover the sea? [Yes / No]

Have our hearts of stone (stiffness, stubborness and outright rebellion) been taken away yet? [Yes / No]

Have we stopped sinning? [Yes / No]

If these things have not yet happened, then we are still in the age of the downpayent/security/pledge/dowry.

The New Covenant has not been fully inaugurated, the wedding march is being played but the groom has yet to kiss the bride.

Oh....answer you? You never want to talk Abe, and NT THEOLOGY WITH ME DO YA? I tried You never answered me.....you did not want to, because we are in the promise, and it can't be by law, so instead you want to talk this..lol

8:1 Now the point in what we are saying is this: we have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, 2 a minister in the holy places, in the true tent that the Lord set up, not man.

 

[cyberlizard]

Oh....answer you? You never want to talk Abe, and NT THEOLOGY WITH ME DO YA? I tried You never answered me.....you did not want to, because we are in the promise, and it can't be by law, so instead you want to talk this..lol

8:1 Now the point in what we are saying is this: we have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, 2 a minister in the holy places, in the true tent that the Lord set up, not man.

why does this not surprise me...


Steve

p.s. Frogster can quote Paul, but is incapable of yes/no answers when they do not suit his theology... so show us all Frogster, has the New Covenant come into existence yet according to the brief questions I asked.

 

[Stryder06]

Did I really say that? I must then ask does one then only read half the book and ignore the solution to the predicament?

The solution was foretold in the OT. It was fulfilled in the New. This is why we need both books and why neither one supersedes the other

 

[bugkiller]

Lev 4:20 This is what he is to do with the bull — he must do the same with this bull as he does with the one for the sin offering. Thus the cohen will make atonement for them, and they will be forgiven.
Lev 4:35 All its fat he is to remove, as the fat of a lamb is removed from the sacrifice for peace offerings; and the cohen is to make it go up in smoke on the altar on top of the offerings for Adonai made by fire. Thus the cohen will make atonement for him in regard to the sin he committed, and he will be forgiven.
Lev 5:10 He is to prepare the second as a burnt offering in the manner prescribed. Thus the cohen will make atonement for him in regard to the sin which he committed, and he will be forgiven.
Lev 5:16 In addition, he is to make restitution for whatever he did wrong in regard to the holy thing; moreover, he is to add to that one-fifth and give it to the cohen. Then the cohen will make atonement with the ram of the guilt offering, and he will be forgiven.
Lev 6:7 (5:26) Thus the cohen will make atonement for him before Adonai, and he will be forgiven in regard to whatever it was he did that made him guilty

OK this is blood sacrifice for sin. I thought there was a statement that a non blood sacrifice would sufice.

Had a hard enough time finding this post. If responded to I will look for the post that caused my question.

bugkiller

 

[yedida]

OK this is blood sacrivice for sin. I thought there was a statement that a non blood sacrifice would sufice.

Had a hard enough time finding this post. If responded to I will look for the post that caused my question.

bugkiller

You're right. I just didn't go that far. I think I had in mind when I posted these verses was that someone had said that there was no forgiveness of sins/salvation in the Levtical system.
Back to your query, :
Lev 5:11 But if he be not able to bring two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, then he that sinned shall bring for his offering the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour for a sin offering; he shall put no oil upon it, neither shall he put any frankincense thereon: for it is a sin offering.
This is probably stated more than just here, but you can follow references if you wish.

 

[NaLuvena]

Wow...the legs on this thread are still going!!!


Just caught up with everything, spent the last hour or so just reading through the posts and just wanted to post this (not that it's new, but I think it's relevant).

We all agree to the leadership of God's Spirit, that is now with believers.

Why would God send His Spirit to help us keep the Law, if He was going to abolish the Law?

Ezekiel 36:27

27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

Does it seem that the Messianic Christian movement is increasing in popularity, or is it just me?

 

[NaLuvena]

Oh....answer you? You never want to talk Abe, and NT THEOLOGY WITH ME DO YA? I tried You never answered me.....you did not want to, because we are in the promise, and it can't be by law, so instead you want to talk this..lol

8:1 Now the point in what we are saying is this: we have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, 2 a minister in the holy places, in the true tent that the Lord set up, not man.

Genesis 26:5

because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

Hope you accept God's own words (in the first person no less!!!), my friend....

 

[bugkiller]

You're right. I just didn't go that far. I think I had in mind when I posted these verses was that someone had said that there was no forgiveness of sins/salvation in the Levtical system.
Back to your query, :
Lev 5:11 But if he be not able to bring two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, then he that sinned shall bring for his offering the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour for a sin offering; he shall put no oil upon it, neither shall he put any frankincense thereon: for it is a sin offering.
This is probably stated more than just here, but you can follow references if you wish.

OK for the exteremely poor. The rest of the chapter talks about blood atonement. My question since atonement can be had without the sheding of blood what is the real puprose of Jesus death on the cross and the sheding of His blood. Sure seems like a waste when when a non blood offering would do. Why then didn't God accept Cain's offering?

So would it have to do with the remission of sin which isn't the same as forgiveness? On looking the same word is translated for both . Lets try redemption from sin/law.

I'm coming from Eph 1:7 - In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Colossians 1:14 says almost the exact same thing - In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

So maybe I got redemption and forgiveness mixed up.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Wow...the legs on this thread are still going!!!


Just caught up with everything, spent the last hour or so just reading through the posts and just wanted to post this (not that it's new, but I think it's relevant).

We all agree to the leadership of God's Spirit, that is now with believers.

Why would God send His Spirit to help us keep the Law, if He was going to abolish the Law?

Ezekiel 36:27

27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

So does it make any sense that God would lead us back to what He had us redeemed from by His only begoten Son, Jesus?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Genesis 26:5

because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

Hope you accept God's own words (in the first person no less!!!), my friend....

Would you kindly explain what My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws is? Thanks.

bugkiller

 

[yedida]

OK for the exteremely poor. The rest of the chapter talks about blood atonement. My question since atonement can be had without the sheding of blood what is the real puprose of Jesus death on the cross and the sheding of His blood. Sure seems like a waste when when a non blood offering would do. Why then didn't God accept Cain's offering?

So would it have to do with the remission of sin which isn't the same as forgiveness? On looking the same word is translated for both . Lets try redemption from sin/law.

I'm coming from Eph 1:7 - In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Colossians 1:14 says almost the exact same thing - In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

So maybe I got redemption and forgiveness mixed up.

bugkiller

You've asked an excellent question. I'm certainly no expert to be attempting to answer such a deep thought, but perhaps I do have one idea to work with.
If you read Leviticus, at least the first 5-6 chapters which deal with the sacrifices to be offered, you'll see that over and over again, Hashem speaks of intentional, premediatad, disobedient, and rebellious sins - There was NO Sacrifice for these, the sinner would carry that offense to death.
In Jesus' sacrifice ALL sins were included!!! Now That's GOOD NEWS indeed!!
(There may be more theological reasons for the need of not only Jesus' blood but His death as well, but for me that one will have to suffice, I don't really know of any other reason.)

 

[NaLuvena]

So does it make any sense that God would lead us back to what He had us redeemed from by His only begoten Son, Jesus?

bugkiller

It makes perfect sense, unless you happen to think that Jesus redeemed us from the Law.

Jesus redeemed us from the CURSE of the Law, not the Law itself. The curse is the curse, death etc.

Jesus came that we may have life, and have it more abundantly!

Now if God sent His Spirit to move us to keep the Law, how can anyone claim that the Law has been done away with?

 

[NaLuvena]

Would you kindly explain what My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws is? Thanks.

bugkiller

They all refer to God's Law.

 

[Rose_bud]

They all refer to God's Law.

I disagree with this, they refer to Abraham, obeying Gods voice, when he was told to get out of his country, and when he was told to sacrifice his son, and when he was instructed to circumcise his sons.. My laws.. can also mean.. my instructions

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I disagree with this, they referred to Abraham, obeying Gods voice, when he was told to get out of his country, and when he was told to sacrifice his son, and when he was instructed to circumcise his sons.. My laws.. can also implies.. my instructions

Notice Who's voice the Disciples are told to listen to in Matt 17:5. One of the most awsome verses in the NT/NC

Matthew 17:5 Still of Him speaking, behold! a luminous cloud over-shadows them.
And behold! a Voice out of the cloud saying "this is the Son of Me, the beloved, in whom I delight,
be ye hearing Him[SIZE=+0]!". [/SIZE]
[Deut 18/Acts 3:22/Revelation 2:18]

Revelation 2:18 And to the messenger of the Out-called in Thyatira, write!
Now this is saying the Son of the God, the One having the eyes of Him as flame of fire, and the feet of Him as to burnished-brass.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Does it seem that the Messianic Christian movement is increasing in popularity, or is it just me?

As long as the Christian movement itself is increasing, that is all that matters to me

Matt 10:23 "Whenever yet they may be chasing/persecuting ye in the city, this, be fleeing into the other.
For Amen I am saying to ye, not no ye should be finishing the cities of the Israel till ever may be coming the Son of the Man".
[Revelation 19:11]

Reve 1:13 And in midst of the seven lampstands one-like a Son of Man having been inslipped to foot and having been about-girded toward the breasts a purse, golden.

Reve 19:11 And I saw the heaven having be opened and behold! A white horse
and the One sitting on it being called Faithful and True
and in justice He is judging and is battling.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7141346-2/#post45929296
Son of Man outside of the Gospels

 

[Frogster]

It makes perfect sense, unless you happen to think that Jesus redeemed us from the Law.

Jesus redeemed us from the CURSE of the Law, not the Law itself. The curse is the curse, death etc.

Jesus came that we may have life, and have it more abundantly!

Now if God sent His Spirit to move us to keep the Law, how can anyone claim that the Law has been done away with?

No, it was the law on a whole, so sonship could come. It says under, not just the curse, no law life, no curse life. Not UNDER, just like Rom 6;14. It says no longer a slave, so the context bears that it means no longer living under law, as his previous life. PAUL>


5 to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. 6 And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7 So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.

 

[Frogster]

It makes perfect sense, unless you happen to think that Jesus redeemed us from the Law.

Jesus redeemed us from the CURSE of the Law, not the Law itself. The curse is the curse, death etc.

Jesus came that we may have life, and have it more abundantly!

Now if God sent His Spirit to move us to keep the Law, how can anyone claim that the Law has been done away with?

was it esp or something?

17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.