Paul Cain sin announced by Joyner, Bickle, and Deere

[Questioning Christian]

http://www.morningstarministries.org/pages/special_bulletins/SB_Current.html​

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Special Bulletin​

by Rick Joyner, Mike Bickle,​

and Jack Deere

October 19, 2004​

http://www.morningstarministries.org/pages/special_bulletins/oct_2004/SB36_Oct_19_2004_print.html​

Number 36Paul Cain has been used mightily by the Lord to touch many lives in our times. He is esteemed by many around the world as a major prophetic voice and as a spiritual father. It would be hard to estimate the number who have been healed, delivered, or saved through his ministry. We have especially benefited from his friendship and ministry in too many ways to count. It is therefore with great sorrow that we publish the following.

In February 2004, we were made aware that Paul had become an alcoholic. In April 2004, we confronted Paul with evidence that he had recently been involved in homosexual activity. Paul admitted to these sinful practices and was placed under discipline, agreeing to a process of restoration which the three of us would oversee. However, Paul has resisted this process and has continued in his sin. Therefore, after having exhausted the first two steps of Matthew 18:15-17, we now have a responsibility to bring this before the church.

Our sincere hope remains to see Paul restored. We are deeply committed to Galatians 6:1, which states, “Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, lest you too be tempted.”

We do not believe that Paul has committed anything that places him beyond the grace of God. We are hopeful that there are those who are more spiritual and wiser than we have been who can help Paul through a process of restoration in which we failed. We also remain open and desirous of helping Paul with his restoration process in any way we can. If restored, we believe that Paul can once again have an extraordinary ministry and be a significant blessing to the body of Christ.

We apologize to the body of Christ for our lack of discernment in promoting Paul’s ministry while he had these significant strongholds in his life. We failed to see them until this year.

It is also a mistake to assume that others who were close to Paul or worked with him shared these same problems.

We also do not feel that this should in any way negate or reduce the great benefit that Paul’s ministry has been to so many in the past. We hope that Paul can yet be restored and used again for the glory of God in the wonderful way that so many of us have been blessed to see in the past.

With our deepest regrets and sincerity,

Rick Joyner
Jack Deere
Mike Bickle

 

[Andrew]

That's sad. Here's an interesting bio on the man of God:

http://www.propheticroundtable.org/PaulCain/paul_cain_a_personal_profile.htm

 

[Questioning Christian]

I hope that people will be honest and deal with this as sin, and not as "an attack of the devil". It wasn't the devil, any more than the devil made Flip Wilson "do it". The devil is a tempter, and Jesus was tempted in all the points where we are tempted and he has grace for us to resist temptation.

This is a very serious matter indeed.

 

[JimB]

Sigh!

It’s, like, deja-vu all over again … and again … and again … and again … and again …

Every time we make a celebrity out of a minister we are in danger of this. That’s the peril of glitzy superstar ‘Christian’ TV. When we idolize men, place them on a pedestal, make celebrities out of them, flock to their meetings, stand in line to be touched by them, we invariably set them up for a fall.

“I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought” (Romans 12.3).

I am no prophet (like Paul Cain), but I predict we will see this again … and again … and again … and again … and again …

As the Apostle said, we are ever learning but somehow never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

BTW, I am not so sure why this kind of information was made public by Bickle, Deere, and Joyner. This was a church matter. I am not a member of their church.

\o/

 

[Andrew]

Every time we make a celebrity out of a minister we are in danger of this. That’s the peril of glitzy superstar ‘Christian’ TV. When we idolize men, place them on a pedestal, make celebrities out of them, flock to their meetings, stand in line to be touched by them, we invariably set them up for a fall.

Does that mean that ministers who are not in the "limelight" but who pastor some humble little church in some humble small town never fall?

I think more of such ministers fall. They just dont recieve that much attention and condemnation becos they aren't 'popular'. Also, being a nobody, the temptation to sin is greater becos who cares what you've done, you're a 'nobody'.

But if you're a somebody, then more people (esp the devil) want to see you fall.

 

[Svt4Him]

Sigh!

It’s, like, deja-vu all over again … and again … and again … and again … and again …

Every time we make a celebrity out of a minister we are in danger of this. That’s the peril of glitzy superstar ‘Christian’ TV. When we idolize men, place them on a pedestal, make celebrities out of them, flock to their meetings, stand in line to be touched by them, we invariably set them up for a fall.

“I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought” (Romans 12.3).

I am no prophet (like Paul Cain), but I predict we will see this again … and again … and again … and again … and again …

As the Apostle said, we are ever learning but somehow never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

BTW, I am not so sure why this kind of information was made public by Bickle, Deere, and Joyner. This was a church matter. I am not a member of their church.

\o/

Probably because his church is bigger than just a building.

But it's sad. Please be praying for him.

 

[Trish1947]

Sort of makes you tremble, really!!..Makes me not want to shoot the wounded, But pray for them that they come out of the darkness.

 

[JimB]

Does that mean that ministers who are not in the "limelight" but who pastor some humble little church in some humble small town never fall?

I think more of such ministers fall. They just dont recieve that much attention and condemnation becos they aren't 'popular'. Also, being a nobody, the temptation to sin is greater becos who cares what you've done, you're a 'nobody'.

But if you're a somebody, then more people (esp the devil) want to see you fall.
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Of course they fall. They just don’t make tidal waves when they do. Just the celebs do.
And they fall like flies and sound like bombs.
\o/

 

[JimB]

Does that mean that ministers who are not in the "limelight" but who pastor some humble little church in some humble small town never fall?

I think more of such ministers fall. They just dont recieve that much attention and condemnation becos they aren't 'popular'. Also, being a nobody, the temptation to sin is greater becos who cares what you've done, you're a 'nobody'.

But if you're a somebody, then more people (esp the devil) want to see you fall.
[/font][/color]

Of course humble pastor's fall. They just don’t make tidal waves when they do. Only those we make celebs do.
And they fall like flies ... and sound like bombs.
\o/

 

[JVD]

This sin has been in the media for some time. I suppose the reason they announced it publically is to acknowledge what many people already knew.

This has been a subject of discussion among many of those that run in the TV Preacher celebrity circles for months.

Excuses can not be made for him. He needs to deal with this sin like the rest of us do. God forgives.

 

[Andrew]

Excuses can not be made for him. He needs to deal with this sin like the rest of us do.

Yes most certainly agree.

BUT how come he doesn't seem to get the same level of 'response'/'attention' LIKE THE REST OF US do.

It seems like Christians in the spotlight have to pay a greater price for their sin compared to the same sin committed by a Christian who is not in the spotlight.

 

[JVD]

It seems like Christians in the spotlight have to pay a greater price for their sin compared to the same sin committed by a Christian who is not in the spotlight.

This is true...and should be so. With greater prestige and leadership comes greater responsibility.

Any one of us that takes on a leadership role in the church needs to realize that we have a greater responisbility to live open and godly lives.

None of us will be perfect, but those in the leadership need to live a more open life. This will lead to more humbleness because the flaws will show, but that will also lead to more of a servant attitude on the part of the leaders.

When we hide our sin in a leadership position, the end result is more harm than if we were more open with our brothers.

For example, Paul Cain,(if you research this particular problem), would likely not have gotten into the homosexual sin if he had been more open about his alchoholism in the first place and sought help. Apparently the situation happened while he was drunk. I'm not picking on him but it is a classic teaching example for all of us.

 

[Questioning Christian]

This is the email I wrote to Rick Joyner at his website email address:

_______________________________________
Dear Morning Star Ministries

I am a Christian [spirit-filled, etc] and I have watched many Charismatic ministries today and listened to their prophecies, preaching and ministry over many years.

I have just learned from your website that Paul Cain has confessed to both alcoholism and homosexuality, as announced in your update from 10-19-2004. Let me say this right out of the gate. You stated in part of your announcement the following:

"We apologize to the body of Christ for our lack of discernment in promoting Paul’s ministry while he had these significant strongholds in his life. We failed to see them until this year."


I feel that Rick Joyner, Jack Deere, and Mike Bickle have nothing to apologize for at all for the sin of another man. However it lends reputability and credibility to show sensitivity at this time to those who listened to Mr. Cain.

First of all, I hope the body of Christ does not make excuses for Mr. Cain's sinful behavior. I have seen a lot of charismatic leaders slip and then we hear from other leaders that this was "an attack from the devil", when it was clearly a case of choice by that person. We as church congregants are told that our sins are by choice. The standard is the same for the leaders. In fact, by God, the leaders are held to an even higher standard of accountability.

Jesus never judged the masses, but he did judge his own disciples and the religious leaders of the day.

Mr. Bickle, Mr. Joyner, and Mr. Deere, you should not feel frustrated in your effort. People have to make up their own minds to submit to the will of God of their own free will. I sensed the frustration in the announcement.

I have been through two major church scandals, with our leaders at the very highest levels of the infrastructure letting us down. One caused a church split and broken lives, and the other caused the loss of church members and more discouragement in the hope for good leadership. Our eyes are to be on God, not on man, but the Lord would have His leaders set good examples for the flock, as he demands through his word.

There was major pain in the two separate church situations, but one thing was sure. People got their eyes on God a little more, and they found out their own hearts revealed to them.

But this does not excuse the wickedness perpetrated by the leaders, nor relieve them of the responsibility of dealing with it. Ezekiel 34 speaks to the shepherds who disregard the sheep for their own self-benefit, and God deals with them sternly.

Hopefully, Mr. Cain will respond to God's holiness and grace, and take for himself what he has prescribed to others.

Time will tell.

Thank you

 

[Andrew]

Before we judge the man (we already have), has anyone heard his side of the story?

 

[Questioning Christian]

Yeah, Joyner, Bickle, and Deere told us Cain's side of the story. He admitted to what they said and he refused to walk away from it.

It is different if he decided to hang in there for counseling. If he refuses help, then what does any side of the story matter?

 

[Asaph]

If alcoholisim is a disease, why isn't anyone suggesting prayers of healing for this guy? If he would have had some debilitating chemical embalance that caused him mental problems, would Joyner and that bunch have found the need to proclaim to all the world that he was a sinner who at this time is unable to overcome?

The whole thing smacks of "works of the flesh" to me. I don't know, but I do hope that all of us are praying for him to be healed.

BTW, I don't know much about any of these guys mentioned here, so I must suppose that they are all servants of the Lord.

Peace,
Asaph

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

BTW, I am not so sure why this kind of information was made public by Bickle, Deere, and Joyner. This was a church matter. I am not a member of their church.

\o/

Because while they do not all attend the same church, they all minster together as a team.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

If alcoholisim is a disease, why isn't anyone suggesting prayers of healing for this guy? If he would have had some debilitating chemical embalance that caused him mental problems, would Joyner and that bunch have found the need to proclaim to all the world that he was a sinner who at this time is unable to overcome?

The whole thing smacks of "works of the flesh" to me. I don't know, but I do hope that all of us are praying for him to be healed.

BTW, I don't know much about any of these guys mentioned here, so I must suppose that they are all servants of the Lord.

Peace,
Asaph

If they kept it hidden then they would be criticized for that. They have and are doing exactily as scripture tell's us to do it.

But as Jim said, we are not to put other's up on pedistal's and think that they are beyond being human. While I don't believe the devil "made" him do it I do believe the enemy was lying in wait for him just as he is with all of us and the moment there was an opening he slipped in and Paul succomed. We need to lift him up in prayer so that he will overcome this. If it were any of us we would be grateful.

 

[JimB]

I’ll say it again: Paul Cain’s public moral disgrace (not to mention Jimmy Swaggart’s, Jim Bakker’s, Robert Tilton’s, Karl Strader’s, W. V. Grant’s, Larry Lea’s, Peter Popoff’s, Oral Robert’s, Mike Warnke’s, Richard Dortch’s, Roberts Liardon’s, John Wesley Fletcher’s, A. A. Allen’s, and the list goes on, sigh!, and on, and on …) is partially our fault. (Interestingly, all of these men claimed to be filled with the Spirit and spoke in tongues. Do you find that troubling?)

According to one poll, only 66% of Americans have any confidence at all in Protestant ministers. Even less in those who follow televangelists (mostly P/C’s). Why? Because their idea of ministers (God help us) comes from what they see on their TV and what they read about with the latest televangelist scandal in the paper. According to the article …

“But the most interesting data is related to organized religion. From 1973 to the mid-1980s, religious institutions obtained many ratings above 60%. Ratings suffered in 1989 due to the televangelist scandals involving embezzlement and sexual improprieties by Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker and other Christian leaders. Confidence sank to only 52%, a 30 year low. In 2001, it had risen to 59%. But by 2002, it had sank to 45% -- a drop of 14 percentage points in one year. This represents a 20-year low.”



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Yes, televangelists hurt the gospel and breed distrust of faithful ministers by their willful failures. Televangelists are for the most part (IMO) self-serving, narcissistic individuals who love the limelight and have spent a lifetime promoting themselves (I have worked for a still-prominent televangelist and sat on his rubber-stamp board of directors for almost a decade – gratefully I was released for, gasp!, “disloyalty”.)


But those of us who support and nurse their conceit, send them money, flock to their meetings, believe them, idolize them (although, of course, we deny the idolatry part) are the ones who build the pedestals from which they fall. Without our help they would not exist and their scandal would never hurt so many people and cripple the gospel so severely. If we support them, we must share their culpability when they fail.

To sit among a coven of televangelists, as I have, would sicken you. Almost without exception (and I did say ‘almost’), their language is uncouth, their topic is usually money and how to get it, and they view people as merchandise. They demand absolute loyalty from their devotees without returning it, seriously underpay their workers (who should just be happy to be working for such a Christian mega-star – I have a friend who still works for one of the most prominent of the pack), and feel entitled to the luxuries they enjoy (I’ve never met a modest televangelist and I’ve met almost all of them).

So, it is no surprise to me when another scandal is found out and another prominent ‘minister’ is toppled from their privileged roost. Sadly, I’ve come to expect it and am, admittedly, as you may suspect, a bit jaded.

I have two friends, pastors in the same city, who have just created their own scandals. Both founded the churches they pastored, watched them grow enormously, took too much credit for their success, attained an untouchable privileged celebrity status among their peers, became aloof and insulated from their members … all the usual light-headedness that comes from elevating mortals to such altitudes. Both felt accountable “only to God”. One was caught in a sordid affair with a woman and the other was accused and convicted of molesting a female church member. The large church the latter pastored, that ministered to thousands, dissolved within a year and the flock scattered. The latter pastor is no longer serving his church and is now in therapy trying to salvage his marriage and reputation.

Great tragedies, IMO. But they are not solely to blame. Without us, their gullible supporters, they would not have a place from which to fall.

I will pray for Paul Cain as I have for all the fallen stars of Charismania. I pray for their willfully-ignorant victims and supporters. I pray for the souls that will slip through the cracks they (we) have created. And I will pray that the Spirit of power will become the Spirit of wisdom among P/C’s.

Okay, I’ve rambled enough. But remember, Paul Cain (et.al.) could not have fallen without our help.

\o/

 

[StevenL]

If the assemblies would repent of the unscriptural practices of setting up A man to be The Leader (The Pastor) over them, a lot of this could be curtailed. Any time the people of God ignore what is written, trouble follows. And MOST are ignoring the apostolic traditions that were given by Jesus Himself to keep the order in the assemblies...to keep the physical order in line with the spiritual dimension and to keep sin from feasting with us.

Jim is right. Christendom has created these situations for itself by rejecting the real meaning of the cross. It will continue to happen and get worse and worse. God's sheep will come out from among them.