Patriotism

[TomUK]

For those of you who don't know, the polls opened in Britain today for elections to local councils and the European Parliament. I am a proud Conservative voter, and a humble patriot, but i've been wondering in the past few days (and in part to the tremendous national feeling in America in responce to recent events) about patriotism- how compatible is patriotism with our lives as Christian? I must admit there are times when i get carried away with great love for my country, and perhaps even feel at times that i would go to war for my country, but would i for my faith? To what extent can a Christian be a patriot?

 

[artofwar]

Hmmm good question
I believe I am a Patriotic Australian as I would defend it against any false accusation. Mind you a lot of people take it way too far I believe . for me my Christian faith is first and for most then my family then my country and race. If they called people up to fight for Australia if someone invaded and I was on my own soil then yes i would fight but if it was someone elses politics or a war somewhere else i would not. also IMO a lot of racism is involved with patriotism as well cause everyone thinks their country is the best, smartest strongest etc.

 

[Youth Minister]

People who display a great deal of love for their country really have found another god to worship and in time their Christian beliefs will be compromised.All national governments to varying extents are corrupt because they are managed by humans.This is why it makes no sense to worship a government instead of God.In fact,nationalism is one of the most frequent contributing causes of war.Here are some Bible verses that argue against strong patriotism:"God is no respecter of persons","He who loves the world is an enemy of God" and "Love your enemies".God created us all to live in peace with one another,not to separate ourselves into man-made political boundaries which then create jealousy and frequently hatred.Most importantly you need to be careful about this:God hates pride.It's a horrible sin that sends people to hell.Humble and faithful followers of Jesus loving ALL of their fellow man is what God is looking for.You can not sucessfully serve both God and country.There is no nation in the world that faithfully follows all of Jesus' teachings.You need to go on that trip yourself.

 

[Kas]

we covered this in a debate on the militairy forum, maybe you would like to have a read and see what views were voiced! It was an informative and oft heated debate!

Peace,
Kas.

http://www.christianforum.com/t104331

 

[Sketcher]

Many Christians it seems feel the need to despise their government because if they didn't it would be worshipping it. That is incompatable with Romans 13.

I am friends with another Christian who is from Europe. He is a socialist. Christ unites us. If we let politics divide us, then that is where both our patriotism would be a problem. He loves the Swiss way of doing things, I love the American way. But both of us love the Bible more, and that is what counts.

 

[PaladinValer]

Patriotism to the point of blindly following the leader of your country or not questioning the leadership of your country is outright dangerous.

True patriotism is, IMO, the devotion to the ideals that founded your nation. As a citizen of the US, I consider myself a devoted patriot to those ideals of life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness. Just because I may not agree with or outright despise some folks in political power does not make me unpatriotic. In retrospect, it makes me even more if I believe they haven't made decisions that I believe aren't in accordance to those ideals.

 

[Kas]

I think that patriotism to a country is symptomatic of a much deeper heresy concerning identity. It is based more upon the philosophies of Liberal Modernity than it is upon the teachings of the Christian faith. We are Christians, we are a people, and our loyalty should be to GOD and His people, the nation state is an un-Christian excreation of an ideology that seeks to suppress Christian consciousness!

We Christians need to rediscover a Christian politic and political agenda! I think patriotism to a nation state is a distraction from GOD and our duties to one another!

Peace and love,
Kas

 

[PaladinValer]

Being from a country that is founded on life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness as well as the philosophy of the Enlightenment and whose Founding Fathers were religious non-Christians, I find the idea of "Christian poilitics" not only dangerous but also find the notion that the such suppresses Christianity incredibly egotistic.

The very reason why my nation even had a separation of Church and State was becaused of the near-theocracies of Europe and the religious wars. I'll have none of that in my USA, thank you.

 

[Kas]

you will settle for the wars of Liberal Modernity in there place then instead-right got ya! ;-)

peace,
Kas.

 

[PaladinValer]

No, but I will settle for a country not run by any religion and were life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness are the highest ideals of the country.

Now if my USA is too liberal for you, your choice, but do not insult my nation again, thank you.

 

[plum]

We are citizens of our countries.

But we are FIRST citizens of the Kingdom of God. He is ruler. We are his children. This is where our loyalties should lie.

 

[Kas]

No, but I will settle for a country not run by any religion and were life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness are the highest ideals of the country.

Now if my USA is too liberal for you, your choice, but do not insult my nation again, thank you.

So instead of being run in terms of Christianity you would seek to live in a country run by Liberal Modern Philosophy! Man made!
Where life is denied to 1 million children every year! Liberty is for the rich and powerful at the expense of the poor and week, and happiness replaces GOD as the Telos of life! Yes, your america is to Liberal for me, as is the United Kingdom! I want a new Christendom! Your nation state means nothing to me! However, your faith means everything!

Peace and love
Kas

 

[Sketcher]

So I can rip the Sudanese to shreds and you won't care?

*cracks knuckles*

 

[PaladinValer]

So instead of being run in terms of Christianity you would seek to live in a country run by Liberal Modern Philosophy! Man made!
Where life is denied to 1 million children every year! Liberty is for the rich and powerful at the expense of the poor and week, and happiness replaces GOD as the Telos of life! Yes, your america is to Liberal for me, as is the United Kingdom! I want a new Christendom! Your nation state means nothing to me! However, your faith means everything!

Peace and love
Kas

Israel was once a theocracy and that failed miserably. The Founding Fathers knew that.

And I'm sorry to tell you this, but most of the world is multicultural and multireligious. That's life. If you don't like that, its your personal problem.

And mind you, its the democrats who are more "give to the poor from the rich" than the republicans in general (there are plenty of exceptions to both groups). Of course, you simply judge without knowing, so what is to convince you?

And please continue to bash the US, GB, Canada, etc. Be as prideful as you wish; it only bears more bad fruit.

 

[WarSong]

People who display a great deal of love for their country really have found another god to worship and in time their Christian beliefs will be compromised.All national governments to varying extents are corrupt because they are managed by humans.
...

So are churches. I love God, but I've almost given up on churches because of the..."politics". Interestingly, some of the most devout group of Christians I've met have been the Airmen here on base, who attend the base chapel.

 

[MrsGnomeCrusher]

So instead of being run in terms of Christianity you would seek to live in a country run by Liberal Modern Philosophy! Man made!
Where life is denied to 1 million children every year! Liberty is for the rich and powerful at the expense of the poor and week, and happiness replaces GOD as the Telos of life! Yes, your america is to Liberal for me, as is the United Kingdom! I want a new Christendom! Your nation state means nothing to me! However, your faith means everything!

Peace and love
Kas

God gave us free will to choose. If He wanted the entire world to be ran in terms of Christianity, He would have done so, don't you think? So you, as a man, know better than God?

I live in a country where you have that CHOICE to believe in whomever, whatever you want to believe in--including Christianity. It's obvious the point your trying to prove is your dislike towards America.

I'm glad that you want Christiandome. I'm more concerned with what God wants.

 

[JPPT1974]

It isn't what people want but want God wants but keep praying and praying and accept God's will and his way because whatever He says and does goes and rules.

 

[Kas]

So I can rip the Sudanese to shreds and you won't care?

*cracks knuckles*

Actually Moslem terrorists are doing a good job of that already and have been doing so for eighteen years, welcome to the war, your late; as usual!

With less satire-but to make the same point, American patriotism (and patriotism to any country for that matter) has blinded the Christians of the west to the plight of their brothers and sisters in Africa, Latin America and the middle and far East. In the Sudan Christians have needed their own people support for many years, sadly little has been forth coming! That is becouse most of the energies of patriotism to GOD Kingdom and loyalty to His people are taken up by 'our' nationalistic agenda, which blinds us from GOD perspective!

Peace,-with your comments I rest my case!

Kas.

 

[Kas]

God gave us free will to choose. If He wanted the entire world to be ran in terms of Christianity, He would have done so, don't you think?

No I really do not believe this, as your whole argument is based upon fatalism, Christianity is not fatalistic! GOD wills that we should seek to enact His will, not sit on our hands hoping and praying that everything will come out hunky dory-but rather, praying and working that indeed it will do so!

So you, as a man, know better than God?

GOD forbid such a thing, GOD knows best! these are your words not my own.

I live in a country where you have that CHOICE to believe in whomever, whatever you want to believe in--including Christianity. It's obvious the point your trying to prove is your dislike towards America.

I think that you are being oversensitive! I am not attacking the US, the US is just one particular example of Liberal Modernity-the philosophy created by men who thought they knew better than GOD-Christians have been dis-empowered by this man made Philosophy and until we shake it out of our minds, we can not hope to find and do GOD will properly! By the way, your choice to believe what yu want is limmited by the fact that you are not free in your society to make it a public/political reality. The discouse of freedom is a rhetorical tool to justify the seizure of power by the Liberal Modern! Free you mind, then free your people!

I'm glad that you want Christiandome. I'm more concerned with what God wants.

GOD wants Christendom!-Our Farther who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven!

Peace,
Kas

 

[Kas]

Israel was once a theocracy and that failed miserably. The Founding Fathers knew that.

As i recall, the problems started when the people decided that they wanted a human king, like the other nations! maybe I am wrong!

And I'm sorry to tell you this, but most of the world is multicultural and multireligious. That's life. If you don't like that, its your personal problem.

That status quo, was brought about by effort, it can be undone with equal effort!

And mind you, its the democrats who are more "give to the poor from the rich" than the republicans in general (there are plenty of exceptions to both groups). Of course, you simply judge without knowing, so what is to convince you?

This is not about left right political frameworks, Christianity transcends such boundries it is both left and right! It also has an axis missing in the Liberal Modern world view! I'll ignore the diatribe!

And please continue to bash the US, GB, Canada, etc. Be as prideful as you wish; it only bears more bad fruit.

I will ignore the ad hominem argument, I fail to see its accuracy or relavence!

Peace,
Kas.