• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

Patriotism & Loyalty

Max S Cherry

Seeker
Dec 13, 2012
362
4
United States
✟23,231.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Patriotism is an odd sort of thing, and I suppose its greatest mystery to me is how some people view it as an inherently good thing. "Being patriotic" is presented as one of those things that we all ought to be, but what is its value? Seriously.

I am speaking to this from an American point of view, so if it does not match the experiences or practices of any other country, look past it. When I turned 18 years of age, I had to register with the Selective Service, and I remember being told that it was my "patriotic duty" to register. Surely, I am not the only one who has a problem with this.

What makes it my duty? Is it that I had the occasion to be born in the United States? If so, I fail to see that as a reason for my compliance as I had no voice in determining my place of birth. I have read the "if you don't like it, leave it" sentiment, but to say that I ought to leave the US implies that I can leave the US. I have moved across state lines and found that to be an expensive process, and I can only imagine that moving across national lines must be even more expensive. With leaving "it" no longer an "ought," one in my position would be left to be unpatriotic, a seemingly unenviable label.

To tack on loyalty to a state as one of the aspects of patriotism adds to its level of oddness. Should I be considered disloyal if I do something that negatively affects the US? I have never declared my loyalty to the US, so if my loyalty is assumed, I am not disloyal if I do not submit to the assumption. I find it humorous actually when a new "traitor" is discovered, because I see in that person a man who never considered himself loyal to the US to begin with. I do not see how he can be a traitor if he is loyal to that to which he is dedicated. Perhaps, nationality means nothing to him, and he is instead loyal to an ideal.

I have decided that the labeling of "patriots," "traitors", "heroes," and "terrorists" is a meaningless exercise that governments rely upon to bolster themselves. Back in 2001, when the men hijacked the planes and crashed them into buildings here, I remember being shocked at the large number of people calling these men cowards. I am not a coward, and I do not know if I possess the courage to do what they did. They were, in my mind, extremely loyal and courageous.

I am under the impression that the term "patriot" should be universal, and if a man is patriotic to his country, he is a patriot to all who speak of him regardless of their country. A loyal man is loyal despite him being loyal to something you disagree with; he is still loyal. A traitor is an unusual label because it would require a person to go against himself, and in that sense, it seems that being a traitor is some form of mental illness. A hero is one who acts according to his loyalty, his conviction, and if it applies to him, his patriotism instead of being someone who agrees with you.

These terms are so mismatched and overused that they truly seem to be without any real meaning. Anyone got any light to shed on this?
 

Crandaddy

Classical Theist
Aug 8, 2012
1,315
81
✟28,642.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Private
Despite the positive connotations they carry, I'd say that patriotism and loyalty are not necessarily noble and virtuous characteristics in themselves. One can be loyal to a country or cause that is quite ignoble--evil, even. Patriotism and loyalty are good only when what is loved is seen to be good.

I have decided that the labeling of "patriots," "traitors", "heroes," and "terrorists" is a meaningless exercise that governments rely upon to bolster themselves.

These words certainly invoke strong emotions, and this makes them powerful propagandist tools.
 
Upvote 0