Pathetic Science

[Hespera]

Yeah, that's kind of my point. I mean, if these folks can't even study what's right in front of them, why do we trust their claims about what's supposedly infinitely more difficult to study?

true dat. And the non existent standards they use when appraising something that might be an argument against evolution speaks volumes for how little actually goes into the bases for any of their beliefs.

 

[Freodin]

Well, to be fair, I'm not sure most of us would be able to recognize their rotted or dried up faces even if I could see them up close.

Well, to be fair... a miraculous supernatural agent that raises dead people from their graves would be able to restore them to perfect health either.

But that doesn't solve the mystery as AV thinks it does with his snarky remark.

If they didn't look like "raised people" (aka zombies)... how did the "many" they appeared to that these were long dead saints? You wouldn't know most people on your local cemetary... would you know some saints from who knows how long ago?

How would they distinguish them from visitors, of which there certainly were a sizable number during Passah.

Did they go around telling the observers: Hi, I'm a saint. I was dead, but now I have been raised together with my saintly pals here.

Perhaps they had a special aura, visible or identifiable to the "many" they appeared to.

But if they were in any way identifiable as "raised saints"... that brings us back to the question: why was such an extremely special event not recorded anywhere but in an obscure religious text? And how they heck did "Matthew" knew?


But I guess all this are no questions that AV and consorts are bothered by. The Bible says it happened, so it happened and questions can take a hike!

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

Well, to be fair, I'm not sure most of us would be able to recognize their rotted or dried up faces even if I could see them up close.

Did you ever consider that maybe it wasn't zombies from Hollywood walking around?

Think "Sixth Sense"-style Bruce Willis. He didn't look dead to us or to the boy. I think if God, in his infinite wisdom, raised some people from the dead he would also have the ability make sure they weren't oozing puss and filled with worms

Just sayin'

 

[AV1611VET]

You know, AV, I would be a lot more impressed by this logic, if I didn't know exactly that, if this verse used the opposite order, you would use it as example of "see, Jesus tells science to take a hike here".

You know, Freodin -- I have to hand it to you -- that's exactly what I thought when I typed it.

Either way, we show the Bible out to be a winner, don't we?

Just like most guys try to put It in a catch-22 situation.

 

[AV1611VET]

Well, to be fair, I'm not sure most of us would be able to recognize their rotted or dried up faces even if I could see them up close.

-- You guys and your zombie mentality -- it's causing a mental block that you can't get around.

Ever heard the story of the Valley of Dry Bones?

I love it when those "kids stories" rise up and pwn something.

 

[AV1611VET]

But that doesn't solve the mystery as AV thinks it does with his snarky remark.

Seriously -- what 'snarky' remark?

 

[Freodin]

You know, Freodin -- I have to hand it to you -- that's exactly what I thought when I typed it.

Either way, we show the Bible out to be a winner, don't we?

Just like most guys try to put It in a catch-22 situation.

You show the Bible to be a winner?

If that is "to show"... I have shown the Bible to be a cheap plagiate of the latest Mickey Mouse comic.

 

[AV1611VET]

Did you ever consider that maybe it wasn't zombies from Hollywood walking around?

Think "Sixth Sense"-style Bruce Willis. He didn't look dead to us or to the boy. I think if God, in his infinite wisdom, raised some people from the dead he would also have the ability make sure they weren't oozing puss and filled with worms

Just sayin'

 

[Freodin]

Seriously -- what 'snarky' remark?

"Take the nearest graveyard to you, Cal -- if half of its population arose and paraded down the street in front of you, would you even give it a second thought?"

You believe that the people rose and - important! - were recognized as such.

By what means... and why do you imply that Cal couldn't use the same means to identify his local graveyard risers?

 

[Freodin]

Yeah, and interestingly the audience wasn't made aware that Bruce Willis was dead until the very end of the movie.

Why didn't they instantly recognize that he was dead?

 

[CaliforniaSun]

And why would that be?

Take the nearest graveyard to you, Cal -- if half of its population arose and paraded down the street in front of you, would you even give it a second thought?

If so, you must know what half the population in your local cemetery looks like.

You can rest assured I would recognize hundreds of zombies walking down the street... and all I can say is...














HEAD SHOT!

 

[Split Rock]

The O.P. is ... well.... just pathetic.
/thread

 

[Michael]

Those are testimonies, not evidence. How about some evidence? Some way to consistently test for the supernatural?

FYI, for astronomers that means pointing at the sky and adding math.

Of course their religious (faith based) icons are utterly impotent on Earth too.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

The O.P. is ... well.... just pathetic.
/thread

I agree. We should let it die so AV can zombie it at a later date.

 

[AV1611VET]

"Take the nearest graveyard to you, Cal -- if half of its population arose and paraded down the street in front of you, would you even give it a second thought?"

You believe that the people rose and - important! - were recognized as such.

By what means... and why do you imply that Cal couldn't use the same means to identify his local graveyard risers?

My point is -- is that if our graveyards opened up and people came out of them, would you even know it?

I surely wouldn't.

Imagine someone coming to your house and talking to you, only to find out later he was from your local graveyard!

 

[AV1611VET]

Why didn't they instantly recognize that he was dead?

Again -- unless you know what half the population of your local cemetery looks like, why would you recognize someone?

If I came to your house, and stopped along the way and picked a name at random from your nearest cemetery, then asked you to describe him; could you?

 

[CaliforniaSun]

Well, assuming that most of those raised from the grave died more than two weeks prior, they would all be in various states of decomposement.

//Nuff said.

 

[sandwiches]

FYI, for astronomers that means pointing at the sky and adding math.

You seem to be quite content with that math when you think it supports your religion...

 

[Doveaman]

Hmm. You know I love you man, but.....

Fire away.

You might try looking at it another way IMO. "Some" scientists thought to themselves that what the ancients called 'supernatural' might in fact be a very 'natural' process. IMO that is how pantheism came to exist.

Well that’s certainly one way of trying to make sense of it all. I have no doubt we can see God in the physical universe, and the fact that the universe is electric makes it all the more interesting.

It may very well be that what the ancients called "supernatural" is in fact quite a "natural' part of the universe. Science isn't necessarily at odds with Christianity

I agree. They can be considered two sides of the same coin/reality.

Even that type of "faith" that science somehow will replace God turns such a belief system into a "religion" of sorts, one that precludes the possibility that God is the single most "natural" thing in existence.

That’s’ true. We may be the ones that are unnatural. That would certainly explain the coming of Jesus to straighten us out.

While I think that it is true that "some" scientists have boxed themselves into a myopic viewpoint (like Lambda-religion theory), I don't think that applies to "all scientists".

Like I said, I too see God a being “natural” since everything that is real is natural. He can be considered “super” in the sense that his natural state is superior to all else.

At the same time, some of us see God as a Spirit who is capable of existing in a physical body such as the universe. If God is indeed Spirit existing in a physical universe/ body then science would be very restricted in its ability to explain Him.

In fact IMO the adoption of a 'faith' in "dark stuff" and "inflation" was an empirical mistake to begin with from the standpoint of pure empirical physics. It was a betrayal of empirical tenets IMO. I would tend to accuse the mainstream of being "too willing" to believe in 'supernatural' forces of nature like inflation, not for being "unwilling" to entertain the possibility of 'supernatural" forces of nature.

This assumes they are scientists.

I guess it all depends on how you we subjectively look at the universe, eh?

It sure does. One thing is for sure: "god did it" is not dead on either side.

 

[Doveaman]

Science works only with what can be explained.

Are you saying there is nothing about God that can be explained?

You'll find all sorts of 'ancients' across the world that believed in all sorts of different supernatural creation stories and attributed all sorts of different supernatural causes to events.

Maybe they saw something you can’t now see.

When you consider it necessary to invoke things literally described as outside the realm of reality then effectively anything goes.

Define reality. Because for some reason I’m thinking you don’t believe God is real.

This is why religion is divergent and science is convergent. This is why every new scientific discovery gets us one step closer to understanding reality as it is and why every new branch of religious ideology gets its adherents one step away from understand reality as it is.

Again, define reality.

It is simply pointless to invoke supernatural causes as reasons for things and indeed if any supernatural cause was identified in anything then it would cease to be supernatural and become part of the explained and understood.

If its natural state is superior to all other natural states it may be considered supernatural and is explainable.

They are by definition unknown and as a consequence an exercise in utility.

Utility?