Pastor died for 25 minutes and saw hell.

[salamacum]

In the New Life magazine (April 2011), Des Wilson describes how he flat-lined, wen t into the throne room of God. 2 angels appeared and brought forward a man who fell on his face before God.
The man pleased, "But God, I didn't really know who you were".
God replied, "I showed myself to you thousands of times. You cried out to me and asked for help and I answered you."
The man was a churchgoer. He pleaded, "But you are a loving and merciful God". What do you expect - I am only human."
God replied "You only received the Jesus that was going to give you the needs of your flesh. Therefore I do not know you. Depart from me,you evildoer"
The fate that awaited that man was "just darkness. There were many people screaming and wailing 'Have mercy!', and 'Save us'"
Jesus was standing at the pastor's side. He said "I have done all I could for them - I shed my blood for them"

What do you think? An accurate depiction? A vision or parable, an illustration?

 

[vespasia]

A religious experience [under psychological, sociological, philosophical and theological definitions] but this does not make it 'true' as it will have been shaped by this mans prior expereinces, theological understanding and so on.

I do not think we have the language or imagination to cope with what comes after this life here and can merely grope through that window darkly using the points of reference we have here.

 

[Johnnz]

Its theology is so unhealthy that I reckon its not much more than his own thoughts being expressed somehow.

John
NZ

 

[salamacum]

You see what I'm after is how background, theology, scripture all influence each other and affect your emotional state. For example, when I first became a Christian I was pretty unhappy most of the time. There was my sinfulness agreed, but there was also the immutability of God as expounded by the Calvinists in the Church of Scotland church I attended. I just accepted that my own unhappiness was the lot that God had ascribed to me. It was exacerbated by the church's scepticism about 'pastoral' ministry or healing. ("The only healing you need is hearing the word of God" etc). This meant the rejection of small groups.
Then I heard of a Christian girl who ended up in a mental hospital and continued to believe that was where God intended her to be.
Then you've got William Cowper's own fatalism and conviction that he was a son of perdition and that God wanted him to sacrifice himself as Abraham was prepared to do with Isaac. Notwithstanding his deep friendship (even caused by?) with that eternally joyful and assured John Newton.

My friend's son has been deeply unhappy for years. He went to a charismatic church. They basically told him to trust more and concluded that he was in some sort of sin. (mind you - weak father here...)

These people were all steeped in evangelicalism.

So what was the problem? Do you see what I am getting at?
The presentation is on May 6th

 

[salamacum]

Those people I mentioned had a very strong view of their own sin and regarded their current state as God's response to it.
Also, yes, the immutability of God (his unyieldingness) IS a cause of despair for some I know (they have become utterly fatalistic) and for others their arminian lack of assurance gives continual anxiety.
Lordship salvation - have I made Jesus Lord of my life sufficient for him to accept me? Is there unconfessed sin - have I crucified the flesh enough?
Then there's the original sin - have I committed it? A catholic girl I knew suffered for 20 years - she probably still does.

All theological issues. (extremes probably) but still theological which need addressing for the sufferers. But who's qualified to do it? Would you want to read Dan Corner if you were suicidal?

 

[salamacum]

Reading Dan Corner, John Macarthur, or Ray Comfort or David Pawson makes me and others often unconvinced of my salvation. Do I ever do of my best? Is Jesus Lord of my life? I have never achieved mastery over my sin. I cannot say I am ready and willing to go anywhere for Him. For these theologians "working out your salvation" uses a more straight-forward interpretation rather than building on the certainty that you are saved. Then there's always those awful parables in the gospels. You know - if I'm like the guy with one talent I'll be kicked out of the kingdom. And if I don't forgive my brother from the heart then I will be given over to the torturers etc. If you see by what you see pluck your eye out - sin is so serious...What do you say to someone who takes these verses seriously?
It all depends whether you immerse yourself or live light to these theological controversies. Scanning the internet was for another acquaintance of mine a real shock - he suddenly also felt he might not be saved. And he'd preached for years.

 

[salamacum]

Sorry guys - these postings have gone awry - they were meant for another thread.
Sorry....

But answer anyway.

 

[Tim Myers]

I don't even believe that he actually died.......

 

[Johnnz]

Listen to this talk.

GCI Video Player

John
NZ

 

[powerheart]

In the New Life magazine (April 2011), Des Wilson describes how he flat-lined, wen t into the throne room of God. 2 angels appeared and brought forward a man who fell on his face before God.
The man pleased, "But God, I didn't really know who you were".
God replied, "I showed myself to you thousands of times. You cried out to me and asked for help and I answered you."
The man was a churchgoer. He pleaded, "But you are a loving and merciful God". What do you expect - I am only human."
God replied "You only received the Jesus that was going to give you the needs of your flesh. Therefore I do not know you. Depart from me,you evildoer"
The fate that awaited that man was "just darkness. There were many people screaming and wailing 'Have mercy!', and 'Save us'"
Jesus was standing at the pastor's side. He said "I have done all I could for them - I shed my blood for them"

What do you think? An accurate depiction? A vision or parable, an illustration?

1) WHAT is the message for people here /it does not indicate how if the dead guy got saved when alive?? If he accepted Jesus he would not be in hell!! If it is confusing real salvation it might be a lie no matter!
2) Is it trying to scare christians that they might think they are saved?? Is it saying you can be saved yet miss it after?
3) What does it all mean and what is the point here? I do not see organized points or a moral to it's 'truths'..
4) therefore ^ it is too vague [it attacks biblical assurance ]..
I AM asking help here /it is like a hanging rotting corpse that needs attention see.
It needs to be based in the Word even though this is under moderate christianity.If it offers no point or is pointless and wrong I am ready to ignore it all!

 

[salamacum]

< < If it offers no point or is pointless and wrong I am ready to ignore it all! >>

The article was handed out as the headline in the newspaper that we gave people on the street before Easter.

It would have frightened me, but maybe that's what Jesus did with his parables (which couldn't have told the whole story).

I'm sure it upset some readers and made them think that perhaps after death they won't be 'all right"

Surely that's good?

 

[powerheart]

< < If it offers no point or is pointless and wrong I am ready to ignore it all! >>

The article was handed out as the headline in the newspaper that we gave people on the street before Easter.

It would have frightened me, but maybe that's what Jesus did with his parables (which couldn't have told the whole story).

I'm sure it upset some readers and made them think that perhaps after death they won't be 'all right"

Surely that's good?

But does it have a remedy and solution on how to get rid of sin that caused this here? And again that HOW saved do you have to be because Jesus finished his work on the cross ,'it is finished' ..It seems like the guy just was not saved in the first place, which in churches people attend , but some how put off salvation one too many times. It maybe the bottom line is make it clear you simply are saved that you accepted Jesus in your heart and that you had a true start. We can ask for His mercy on any day and truly seek Him too. True salvation has to be based in Scripture being scriptural and not anything else. There were books written on people going to hell [ a visit] and came back and one of them was at least spurious and wacked. 1st John [bible book]does talk about 'being sure' and John chapter 10 gives assured hope. Our salvation is likened to Noah's ark [Jesus here] during the flood are examples.Things need to be based from [or on] Scripture.

 

[powerheart]

This to me is why the internet does not cut it ,THAT we need face to face communication to resolve things or really discuss or share things and relate them correctly .I hardly use online stuff to really get into serious issues.This is potentially very serious. Texting is not everything to me.

 

[Lakatide]

The theology of this does not sit well with me, so I'm going to have to say that I feel this was more of a psychological hallucination/vision than an actual experience of the afterlife.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

In the New Life magazine (April 2011), Des Wilson describes how he flat-lined, wen t into the throne room of God. 2 angels appeared and brought forward a man who fell on his face before God.
The man pleased, "But God, I didn't really know who you were".
God replied, "I showed myself to you thousands of times. You cried out to me and asked for help and I answered you."
The man was a churchgoer. He pleaded, "But you are a loving and merciful God". What do you expect - I am only human."
God replied "You only received the Jesus that was going to give you the needs of your flesh. Therefore I do not know you. Depart from me,you evildoer"
The fate that awaited that man was "just darkness. There were many people screaming and wailing 'Have mercy!', and 'Save us'"
Jesus was standing at the pastor's side. He said "I have done all I could for them - I shed my blood for them"

What do you think? An accurate depiction? A vision or parable, an illustration?

If you want to look deeper into Near Death Experiences, which is what this would be classified as, just Google it.
This account seems shallow to me at best.

 

[powerheart]

< < If it offers no point or is pointless and wrong I am ready to ignore it all! >>

The article was handed out as the headline in the newspaper that we gave people on the street before Easter.

It would have frightened me, but maybe that's what Jesus did with his parables (which couldn't have told the whole story).

I'm sure it upset some readers and made them think that perhaps after death they won't be 'all right"

Surely that's good?

It is though important that 'truths' be based in scripture to discern how to do the things needed .The kind of danger it might be too general so please try to explain what is happening in detail in that article [was that person truly saved (?)because when we get saved we do go to heaven is doctrinal truth according to the Bible the message God sent us] ..We are not saved by religious works or mere deeds but what Jesus had done for us see. Christians will sin in daily life[thus maybe the flesh''] but they do not stay there but get healed and move on to better things.

 

[LWB]

That description sounds like the feeble imaginings of a pharisee, and unlike any near death experience I've read. But then again, I resort to near death experience reports like a diabetic might resort to candy. I know it isn't healthy for me, but sometimes I crave indulgence.

My intuition about the spiritual realm, and in reading literary accounts of mystical experiences such as the book of Revelation, is that spiritual happenings are largely ineffable, and cannot clearly be communicated in our symbolic language. Revelation is largely allegorical, for the reality it points towards cannot be fully painted, so the best we have is a sketch.

So you get a hint of genuine accounts when they mirror the ineffable and downright amazing imagery that is present in Revelation.

God arguing with a bewildered soul is beyond absurd. Anyone brought before the holiness of God would be like Isaiah - they'd be the first to condemn themselves when faced with the radiant beauty of Love personified. They'd volunteer themselves to be thrown forever in the darkness, so as not to spoil the purity of a Holy God. They'd be like John before the frightening glory of Christ in Revelation - dropped down like a dead man.

 

[salamacum]

But does it have a remedy and solution on how to get rid of sin that caused this here? And again that HOW saved do you have to be because Jesus finished his work on the cross ,'it is finished' ..It seems like the guy just was not saved in the first place, which in churches people attend , but some how put off salvation one too many times. It maybe the bottom line is make it clear you simply are saved that you accepted Jesus in your heart and that you had a true start. We can ask for His mercy on any day and truly seek Him too. True salvation has to be based in Scripture being scriptural and not anything else. There were books written on people going to hell [ a visit] and came back and one of them was at least spurious and wacked. 1st John [bible book]does talk about 'being sure' and John chapter 10 gives assured hope. Our salvation is likened to Noah's ark [Jesus here] during the flood are examples.Things need to be based from [or on] Scripture.

This may have been the value of the article therefore. To have scared people out of their assurance? A bit like Jesus did?
Or is it all a bit mean?

 

[Spiritlight]

i would believe that if it came from someone with less positive biases towards Christianity. if a non believer saw that and converted I would give it consideration as a legitimate NDE OBE

 

[AdLucem]

I'm sure it upset some readers and made them think that perhaps after death they won't be 'all right"

Surely that's good?

If perfect love drives out fear....then why would it be good to drive fear into people, anyone? Does God want people to come to Him out of love or fear? The fear of the Lord is different to fear driven by man.