Pastor Arnold Murray?

[Aesjn]

One of the things I LOVE about this man is his need to learn for himself.

He's not locked into dogma. This old hillbilly guy has learned six languages and has revealed many bad translations within the English translations.

One of them has to do with the word for apple. He purports that the word apple that they used was actually an euphemism for sexual knowledge in it's day.

The apple=sex thing isn't novel, it's pretty well known. It's also not universal, not all cultures have the idea, and it might not date back more than a few centuries. We have to be careful about projection modern connotations retrospectively (ex. in ancient Northern European literature men "slept together" all the time but it had absolutely no connotation of "sex" - people slept next to their friends or relatives because it was cold! Also anthropology needs to be referenced - this particular practice continued well into the last two centuries). And the actual symbolism has to do with sodomy. Regardless of that fact though "apple" is not referenced as anything bad anywhere in the bible, it only occurs as "apple of his eye" and the suggestion that people are as beautiful as an apple. And the idea that the original sin was actually sex is extremely heretical and gnostic, and goes against Christianity as well as anything close to normal Judaism. God made us to procreate and to have many children is only considered a supreme blessing in the bible.

 

[Steveam]

One of the things I LOVE about this man is his need to learn for himself.

He's not locked into dogma. This old hillbilly guy has learned six languages and has revealed many bad translations within the English translations.

One of them has to do with the word for apple. He purports that the word apple that they used was actually an euphemism for sexual knowledge in it's day.

Combine that with the fact that it says that first was Cain and then she continued in birth to deliver Abel. Medically, two father twins are possible.

So, he believes that satan came to Eve, had sex with her, (shared the tree of knowledge) then she called Adam over and had sex with him.

Later she gave birth to twins, each from a different father. And when you think about it. It's kinda beautiful. The good and evil struggle. The whole test. Starting right at the source what brought it upon us. There is a balance to that.

Weather I believe this or not is inconsequential. The fact that this man is a monster of knowledge about the bible. And more importantly, about the original bible in it's original text, is nothing to be scoffed at.

Furthermore, he's an archeologist. He was one waaaaay before the church realized that the earth is a little older than they had previously thought.

He's a militant, who cares not what anybody thinks of him. He was out there digging in the rocks while everybody else was wondering what he was doing. They would literally ridicule him for that. Seems he was dead on about that one, huh? And everybody called this guy a kook. They couldn't understand the conflict. But for him, there was no conflict. All he wanted was the truth. Whatever it may be. EVEN IF IT HURT HIM.

So, when someone flippantly makes ruse of this guys teachings, they cancel themselves out to all the really cool stuff that he does reveal.

Also, rather that say something like "This guy's a nut... he says this, or that." Try actually going to the verses he quotes IN THEIR ORIGINAL TEXT and intelligently challenge him. Otherwise, you've contributed nothing.

I'm all for that. But this TOE THE LINE attitude about learning the bible is counterproductive. There are places where this man is an invaluable source of information.

If a person wants to appear more intelligent than another. They must demonstrate why. Not just quote what someone else says, call him an idiot, and hope your peers agree. That's the ping pong way to lern. Just bouncing stuff off each other and go with what sticks.

IF HE'S WRONG, BE INTELLIGENT AND TELL US WHY.

This also reinforces my belief that NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE STUDY THE BIBLE FOR THEMSELVES. Alone...you and the bible.

While I don't purport all that Arnold Murray has to say. I will not cast him off as a source of other jems. And I will not discount what he says without a Strong's Concordance. Much better than just "seein what my friends think."

Which leaves me with this.... My soul is my responsibility. When I get to the judgment I can't say..."but Lord, he told me this, or that"

Because he will just respond with...."But I gave you the Bible and all the tools as well."


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I have to agree. This man is a genius if nothing else. I speak and write Greek since I was a child. I have only watched his answering of mail on his show once. He actually seemed to quote the verse and detail but explained how it was mis transcribed to the new testament and spoke of the Greek writing that was tranlated incorrectly. I got out my two books and there it was. He was correct. How could he number one read and remember that detail and find an error in translation of a language that old.

I was impressed. All of you know alot more about him than me but put yourself in my shoes as I was floored...

Thank you for listening.

 

[Meet me at the cross]

Never heard of the man.

Who watches Pastor Arnold Murray, of Shepherds Chapel? His show is pretty well watched in my area. Personally, I think he's way out to lunch. Yesterday on his show, he delared that the beast would be the king of Babylon, that the 10 kings of the beast are not earthly, but angelic, that Christians will always be rescued during tribulation, and that's just what he said yesterday!

 

[Aner]

Knowing Greek or Hebrew does not make you a genius (there are plenty of "retarded people living in Greece...) and thus simply reading the correct Greek or Heb does not either - it simply means you did two minutes of homework that anyone s/do - but most don't.

Same with David Barton - he may own a bunch of early American writings but his mind is so corrupted and twisted with his own ideology he reads everything with a massive theocratic bottle lens.

This guy is not that healthy based on a friend of mine who got quite involved after he just got saved. He is right winger and has infused this sort of phariseeical hate mongering throughout his messages (over time). I have been there, done that and Jesus rescued me. I was patient with my friend and prayed - and God has pretty much pulled him out of that mire.

Aner