Passion Timeline

[cfposter]

From Chabad.org,

"While a day starts and ends at nightfall, the exact moment when night — and the next calendar date — begins is not clear.

The twilight period, from sunset ("shekiah") until three stars are visible in the sky ("tzeit hakochavim"), is an "iffy" time period, known as "bein hashmashot." Shabbat and all the holidays begin at sunset, the earliest possible definition of nightfall, and end when three stars appear in the sky the next evening, the latest definition of nightfall.

A rabbi should be consulted if a boy is born during bein hashmashot (to determine when the circumcision should be scheduled), or if a person passes away during this time (to determine the date when the yahrtzeit should be observed)." - https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/526873/jewish/The-Jewish-Day.htm

-CryptoLutheran

So where does an "evening" fit into all that?

 

[cfposter]

This seems very unlikely.

-CryptoLutheran

Why so?

 

[ViaCrucis]

So where does an "evening" fit into all that?

Read what was quoted.

The Sabbath begins at sunset, when the first star is visible; and it ends the following sunset. On that following sunset, when three stars are visible the Sabbath has concluded and it is a new day.

Thus the Sabbath begins at the earliest definition of evening, the first visible star; and lasts until the latest definition of evening, when three stars are visible.

Because twilight--from the first visible star until three stars are visible--is iffy, it is not always clear which day an event has occurred on when it happens in this period. Hence why the author of the article mentions consulting with one's rabbi in those cases.

-CryptoLutehran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Why so?

Because I'm having to explain to you what a sunset is.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[cfposter]

Read what was quoted.

The Sabbath begins at sunset, when the first star is visible; and it ends the following sunset. On that following sunset, when three stars are visible the Sabbath has concluded and it is a new day.

Thus the Sabbath begins at the earliest definition of evening, the first visible star; and lasts until the latest definition of evening, when three stars are visible.

Because twilight--from the first visible star until three stars are visible--is iffy, it is not always clear which day an event has occurred on when it happens in this period. Hence why the author of the article mentions consulting with one's rabbi in those cases.

-CryptoLutehran

Ok, so your saying that evening is part of sunset, correct?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Ok, so your saying that evening is part of sunset, correct?

Evening begins at sunset--when the first star is visible in the sky. According to the Jewish understanding.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[cfposter]

Because I'm having to explain to you what a sunset is.

-CryptoLutheran

Evening begins at sunset--when the first star is visible in the sky. According to the Jewish understanding.

-CryptoLutheran

So if evening begins at sunset and sunset begins a new day and Jesus was RISEN the first day then how can it STILL be the FIRST day at evening AFTER the day had already come?:

Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Where I am located, sunset on Friday, April 16th 2021, is at 8:02pm. As such the lightining of the Sabbath candles should occur no later than 7:44pm, 18 minutes before sunset, in accordance with Jewish practice.

If you use Google, you can search when sunset this Friday is for you, that marks when the Sabbath begins where you live. Lighting of the candles is to happen 18 minutes before sunset, the point of which is to ensure enough time so that the Sabbath isn't violated by lighting the candles too late.

On the same basis, the Sabbath ends sunset on Saturday, April 17th this weekend, at 8:53pm. Because enough time is elapsed from the beginning of sunset (8:03pm where I live on April 17th) until nightfall; and thus the Sabbath ends at 8:53pm on Saturday this weekend.

https://www.chabad.org/calendar/candlelighting_cdo/aid/6226/jewish/Shabbat-Candle-Lighting-Times.htm

And all your local sunset and sunrise needs for wherever you are located, here:

Sunrise and Sunset Calculator

-CryptoLutheran

 

[cfposter]

Where I am located, sunset on Friday, April 16th 2021, is at 8:02pm. As such the lightining of the Sabbath candles should occur no later than 7:44pm, 18 minutes before sunset, in accordance with Jewish practice.

If you use Google, you can search when sunset this Friday is for you, that marks when the Sabbath begins where you live. Lighting of the candles is to happen 18 minutes before sunset, the point of which is to ensure enough time so that the Sabbath isn't violated by lighting the candles too late.

On the same basis, the Sabbath ends sunset on Saturday, April 17th this weekend, at 8:53pm. Because enough time is elapsed from the beginning of sunset (8:03pm where I live on April 17th) until nightfall; and thus the Sabbath ends at 8:53pm on Saturday this weekend.

https://www.chabad.org/calendar/candlelighting_cdo/aid/6226/jewish/Shabbat-Candle-Lighting-Times.htm

And all your local sunset and sunrise needs for wherever you are located, here:

Sunrise and Sunset Calculator

-CryptoLutheran

I don't follow that. I follow the Bible way of know when the Period of a Day started and Ended.

 

[ViaCrucis]

So if evening begins at sunset and sunset begins a new day and Jesus was RISEN the first day then how can it STILL be the FIRST day at evening AFTER the day had already come?:

Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

Because the next day hadn't yet arrived, it was nearly there--but it was still the first day of the week when Jesus showed up in their midst.

It's not particularly complicated.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

I don't follow that. I follow the Bible way of know when the Period of a Day started and Ended.

No you don't.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[cfposter]

Because the next day hadn't yet arrived, it was nearly there--but it was still the first day of the week when Jesus showed up in their midst.

It's not particularly complicated.

-CryptoLutheran

You said that evening begins at sunset. So since the verse says they were gathered at evening then sunset had come. The verse proves that your concept of a day is a problem. Again, let's look at the verse:

Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

It says AT EVENING. So evening started and according to you evening starts at sunset. So that means sunset has come and according to you a new day starts at sunset to this should no longer be the first day - according to the improper teaching that you are making about when a Day starts.

I'd ask for you to go and read my article here about how long the Period a Day is so that you can begin to see the proper timeline of the events.

 

[cfposter]

Because the next day hadn't yet arrived, it was nearly there--but it was still the first day of the week when Jesus showed up in their midst.

It's not particularly complicated.

-CryptoLutheran

Also, which word means "nearly" in the verse? you said it isn't complicated so please point out the word that means "nearly" to you and we'll explore the Greek and Textus Receptus.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Also, which word means "nearly" in the verse? you said it isn't complicated so please point out the word that means "nearly" to you and we'll explore the Greek and Textus Receptus.

Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

The sun was beginning to set, it was the beginning of evening, at the close of the day. It was nearly the end of the day, nearly the start of the next day. Nearly, because evening had begun, marking the close of the day and the start of the next.

Nearly is a word in the English language that indicates relative approximation in relation to something else. Relatively speaking, summer is nearly here in the Northern Hemisphere, because the time between now and the beginning of summer is; for example, closer than, say, winter.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

You said that evening begins at sunset. So since the verse says they were gathered at evening then sunset had come. The verse proves that your concept of a day is a problem. Again, let's look at the verse:

Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

It says AT EVENING. So evening started and according to you evening starts at sunset. So that means sunset has come and according to you a new day starts at sunset to this should no longer be the first day - according to the improper teaching that you are making about when a Day starts.

I'd ask for you to go and read my article here about how long the Period a Day is so that you can begin to see the proper timeline of the events.

And if you read what I've said here, evening begins with the first visible star, and concludes when three stars are visible--in the Jewish reckoning. The Sabbath begins with the first visible star, as do all the Jewish holy days.

If it was the same day, at evening, then we are talking about the close of the day. Ergo, nearly the next day, as I said already.

Again, this isn't complicated.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[cfposter]

Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

The sun was beginning to set, it was the beginning of evening, at the close of the day. It was nearly the end of the day, nearly the start of the next day. Nearly, because evening had begun, marking the close of the day and the start of the next.

Nearly is a word in the English language that indicates relative approximation in relation to something else. Relatively speaking, summer is nearly here in the Northern Hemisphere, because the time between now and the beginning of summer is; for example, closer than, say, winter.

-CryptoLutheran

Here is what you stated before:

"Evening begins at sunset--when the first star is visible in the sky. According to the Jewish understanding"

So if evening is started then sunset has started (per your statement).

It isn't complicated - your teaching a falsehood by saying it is near evening when the verse says it was at evening.

Let's note also that you DID NOT Indicate a word in the verse that means "nearly".

 

[ViaCrucis]

Here is what you stated before:

"Evening begins at sunset--when the first star is visible in the sky. According to the Jewish understanding"

So if evening is started then sunset has started (per your statement).

It isn't complicated - your teaching a falsehood by saying it is near evening when the verse says it was at evening.

Let's note also that you DID NOT Indicate a word in the verse that means "nearly".

You are free to provide a valid counter-argument if you would like to present one. But thus far, my original argument of actual Jewish observance and practice reinforces the traditional Christian view of the Passion narrative still stands.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[cfposter]

You are free to provide a valid counter-argument if you would like to present one. But thus far, my original argument of actual Jewish observance and practice reinforces the traditional Christian view of the Passion narrative still stands.

-CryptoLutheran

As I have shown light on. Your understanding of a Day is faulty. Now a Christian way of handling such a situation is to discard what is not True and pursue what is True. A NON-Christian way is to protect a lie and try to pass it off as Truth.

 

[ViaCrucis]

A NON-Christian way is to protect a lie and try to pass it off as Truth.

Many devout Christians unwillingly seek to protect the lies they have been hoodwinked into. I'm not quite willing to excise them from the family tree; the solution is faithfully preaching the truth in love, to elevate the Gospel, and to stand firm in the faith which has been delivered to us from the beginning.

Your having been hoodwinked into these lies you have been fed does not make you a non-Christian. The Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ is for you, our Lord suffered and died for you, in order that you should be justified before God freely by His grace. And by His Word and Sacraments which you have received, Christ Himself has come to you, in mercy, saving you--that you might have faith in Him. Of this I am confident, because my confidence is built upon the solid rock of Jesus Christ and His Gospel, and my confidence rests upon the solid foundation of the ancient prophets, and the holy apostles of our Lord Jesus Himself whose writings make up the Canon of Holy Scripture which we have received, and do indeed confess.

I am therefore confident that you, though deeply wrong, are nevertheless in Christ unless you apostatize and throw yourself overboard into the waves below--but even then, Christ our Captain is there, who Himself throws Himself overboard to rescue us. We have a Good Shepherd, and we, though wayward and woefully inept as we are, are nevertheless the beloved sheep of His pasture.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[cfposter]

Many devout Christians unwillingly seek to protect the lies they have been hoodwinked into. I'm not quite willing to excise them from the family tree; the solution is faithfully preaching the truth in love, to elevate the Gospel, and to stand firm in the faith which has been delivered to us from the beginning.

Your having been hoodwinked into these lies you have been fed does not make you a non-Christian. The Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ is for you, our Lord suffered and died for you, in order that you should be justified before God freely by His grace. And by His Word and Sacraments which you have received, Christ Himself has come to you, in mercy, saving you--that you might have faith in Him. Of this I am confident, because my confidence is built upon the solid rock of Jesus Christ and His Gospel, and my confidence rests upon the solid foundation of the ancient prophets, and the holy apostles of our Lord Jesus Himself whose writings make up the Canon of Holy Scripture which we have received, and do indeed confess.

I am therefore confident that you, though deeply wrong, are nevertheless in Christ unless you apostatize and throw yourself overboard into the waves below--but even then, Christ our Captain is there, who Himself throws Himself overboard to rescue us. We have a Good Shepherd, and we, though wayward and woefully inept as we are, are nevertheless the beloved sheep of His pasture.

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

No way to hold fast what your preaching about when a Day starts.
Let's look at what God showed as a Period of a Day:

Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Notice there is evening and morning the first day. Evening means to Grow in Darkness. THINK ABOUT THAT.
How can you grow in Darkness from Darkness? (remember darkness was what is found before God starts His creative account in Genesis). Evening is a very defined period of time.

Remember God separated Darkness from Light. And that IS PRECISELY how the Jews measured when a Day was and how long it was - by using a SUNDIAL. You see when a SHADOW is cast upon the earth by the Sun, that is the DAY claiming the land. An EVENING starts when the Sun begins to drop below the horizon such that it no longer cast a shadow upon the land.

A PERIOD of a DAY CONTINUES until a New Day claims that right by casting its shadow upon the land.