Passages about Works

[saintboniface]

If works are not necessary for salvation, how do faith alone baptists interpret these passages?

Matthew 25:14-30
Jesus tells a parable about a master who gives fives talents to one servant, two talents to another servant, and one talent to another servant. The servants with five talents and two talents earn additional talents for the master. The master tells these servants to enter into the joy of their lord. The servant with one talent does not earn any additional talents. The master casts this servant into the darkness where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


Matthew 25:31-46
Jesus says when the Son of Man comes into his glory he will sit on his throne. Those who fed the hungry, clothed the naked, and visited the sick were righteous and will inherit the Kingdom. Those who did not feed the hungry, clothe the naked, or visit the sick will be cast into the everlasting fire.


Matthew 16:27
“For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.”


Matthew 10:41-42
“He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward. And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.”


1 Corinthians 3:12-15
“Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.”


1 Corinthians 6:9-10
“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”


2 Corinthians 5:9-10
“Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.”


James 2:14-26
“What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”

 

[Bluelion]

I don't know what faith alone means.

Your forget the passge which says if you see a man cold and hungry on the street and say to him stay warm and eat well but do nothing to help him what good is that.

I believe the passage speaks to faith brings about works.

My belief and what is taught to me, is that a man can not pass up a brother and not help when he ask. That The Holy Spirit works in us all to bring forth works. It is in fact the Holy Spirit works in us which brings forth fruit, but God's graces gives us credit for the works all the same.

What i understand is I can do nothing with out God. Jesus spoke in the true vine sermon that "apart from me you can do nothing" I see this to be true and understand, I am made righteous through the blood of Christ, I bring forth works from The Holy Spirit works in and through me, but by Gods grace I get credit for works and righteousness even though it is all because of him I have these things. Because of him i can produce Good things and it is not of my own will, but the will of God by which this is done. I am in a consent state of surrender to God, struggling with my own will to make my will to only do God's will. The one and only thing I have to give and that God ask for is me. So I try each day to give all my self to Him. It is by Faith, Grace and Love and God's changing my heart and his works in me, that I am able to give of my self. i take a step to God He takes two towards me.

That is how I see it any way.

Oh and every child of God will have works because of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Bluelion]

double post

 

[Bluelion]

douyble post

 

[Legionwrex]

I believe Martin Luther said that Faith alone saves, but the faith that saves is never alone. That is to say that we are saved by Faith alone, but works are the fruit of conversion.

 

[Bluelion]

I believe Martin Luther said that Faith alone saves, but the faith that saves is never alone. That is to say that we are saved by Faith alone, but works are the fruit of conversion.

well put

 

[saintboniface]

I believe Martin Luther said that Faith alone saves, but the faith that saves is never alone. That is to say that we are saved by Faith alone, but works are the fruit of conversion.

Thank you and Bluelion for your responses.

I don't think you are picking up on the fact that most of these passages are stating that there is a reward associated with doing certain works and a punishment for not. There is a punishment for committing certain crimes. The plain language of the passages says that there is a reward for doing good works.

Please explain what is meant by "reward" in these passages.

I understand that having faith would bring about good works, but the passages don't say that. They say there is a reward for good works.

 

[BBAS 64]

Thank you and Bluelion for your responses.

I don't think you are picking up on the fact that most of these passages are stating that there is a reward associated with doing certain works and a punishment for not. There is a punishment for committing certain crimes. The plain language of the passages says that there is a reward for doing good works.

Please explain what is meant by "reward" in these passages.

I understand that having faith would bring about good works, but the passages don't say that. They say there is a reward for good works.

Good Day, Saintboniface

What does that have to do with the historical Christian doctrine of justification by faith alone??

You seem to be confused as to what is necessary for Justification and what are the results of our justification.

Clement of Rome: 32

And we who through his will have been called in Christ Jesus are justified, not by ourselves, or through our wisdom or understanding or godliness, or the works that we have done in holiness of heart, but by faith, by which all men from the beginning have been justified by Almighty God, to whom be glory world without end. Amen. What, then, shall we do, brethren? Shall we cease from well-doing, and abandon charity? May the Master never allow that this should happen to us! but let us rather with diligence and zeal hasten to fulfil every good work. For the Maker and Lord of all things rejoiceth in his works. By his supreme power he founded the heavens, and by his incomprehensible understanding he ordered them. The earth he separated from the water that surrounded it, and fixed it on the firm foundation of his own will. The animals which inhabit therein he commanded to be by his ordinance. Having made beforehand the sea and the animals that are therein, he shut them in by his own power. Man, the most excellent of all animals, infinite in faculty, he moulded with his holy and faultless hands, in the impress of his likeness. For thus saith God: Let us make man in our own image, and after our own likeness. And God made man. Male and female made he them. When, therefore, he had finished all things, he praised and blessed them, and said, Be fruitful, and multiply. Let us see, therefore, how all the just have been adorned with good works. Yea, the Lord himself rejoiced when he had adorned himself with his works. Having, therefore, this example, let us come in without shrinking to his will; let us work with all our strength the work of righteousness." (32-33)


Seeing you are of the Roman Catholic denomination would you happen to have your denominations (supposed) infallible understanding of the verses you have posted.

The burden to show that these verses in their context have any thing to do with Justification is on you as the OP, I do not see that you have done that.

In Him,

Bill

 

[Legionwrex]

Thank you and Bluelion for your responses.

I don't think you are picking up on the fact that most of these passages are stating that there is a reward associated with doing certain works and a punishment for not. There is a punishment for committing certain crimes. The plain language of the passages says that there is a reward for doing good works.

Please explain what is meant by "reward" in these passages.

I understand that having faith would bring about good works, but the passages don't say that. They say there is a reward for good works.

Some Christians believe that there are rewards in Heaven depending on our service to God. There's that verse about a man escaping fire by the skin of his teeth, with his soul being saved but losing everything else. Said Christians above would say that that man lived in a disobedient lifestyle to God after he was saved, so he lost his rewards. I'm not sure how much I buy into that whole thing, but that's an answer I know of.

 

[Bluelion]

Thank you and Bluelion for your responses.

I don't think you are picking up on the fact that most of these passages are stating that there is a reward associated with doing certain works and a punishment for not. There is a punishment for committing certain crimes. The plain language of the passages says that there is a reward for doing good works.

Please explain what is meant by "reward" in these passages.

I understand that having faith would bring about good works, but the passages don't say that. They say there is a reward for good works.

Well they don't all speak to the same thing mathew is talking about those not saved.

In the story of the man who buried the treasure The Master said you wicked servant. Jesus would never call one of His wicked because His blood has made them righteous so He is also speaking of those not saved but heard the word and did nothing with it, did not take it in.

I believe in eternal security so I don't believe salvation can be lost.

 

[Emmy]

Dear saintbonyface. In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus tells a Lawyer: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself." Then Jesus points out this great truth: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." This is straightforward and easy to remember.
What do we do to follow Jesus? Treat all we know and all we meet as we would love to be treated, kindly and always with friendly words, and on occasion, we give the helping hand. God will see our loving efforts, and God will approve and Bless us. In Matthew 7: 7-10: we are told: " Ask and ye shall receive." That means: Ask God in Prayer for Love and Joy, then thank God, and share all Love and Joy with our neighbour: all around us.
We keep asking God for Love and Joy, then thank God, and share all Love and Joy with our neighbour. We might stumble and forget at times, but then we ask God to forgive us, and carry on Loving and Caring. A Christian`s great
weapon is Love, with love we can overcome all enmity and wrong behaviour.
Love is very catching, and we will find that people around us, will treat us the same as we treat people.
The Bible also tells us to " Repent," and to " Be Born Again." That means:
we will give up being selfish and unloving, and change slowly into the men and women which God wants us to become. God is Love, and God wants loving sons and daughters. Jesus our Saviour will help and guide us:
JESUS IS THE WAY. To love is a doing-word, and in Luke 10: 25-28:
Jesus tells another Lawyer: " You know the two Commandments to Love God with all hearts, and souls, and all minds, ALSO, love your neighbour as yourself? DO THIS AND YOU SHALL LIVE." God wants our love, saintbonyface."
I say this with love, and send greetings. Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[saintboniface]

Good Day, Saintboniface

What does that have to do with the historical Christian doctrine of justification by faith alone??

You seem to be confused as to what is necessary for Justification and what are the results of our justification.

Seeing you are of the Roman Catholic denomination would you happen to have your denominations (supposed) infallible understanding of the verses you have posted.

The burden to show that these verses in their context have any thing to do with Justification is on you as the OP, I do not see that you have done that.

Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ. It is granted us through Baptism. Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.

The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man's free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful.

In short, God gratuitously justifies us and gives us grace. We have done nothing to deserve this. God allows us to respond to grace through merit. Again, God freely chose to allow men to respond to grace through merit.

My question didn't ask about justification, it asked about the interpretation of the passages if works are not necessary for salvation. The plain reading of the passages says we must do works to get rewarded (reward = eternal life).

 

[saintboniface]

Well they don't all speak to the same thing mathew is talking about those not saved.

In the story of the man who buried the treasure The Master said you wicked servant. Jesus would never call one of His wicked because His blood has made them righteous so He is also speaking of those not saved but heard the word and did nothing with it, did not take it in.

I believe in eternal security so I don't believe salvation can be lost.

What is the reward?

 

[Legionwrex]

Paul says works don't save you, so that none can boast. Just changing the terms doesn't stop works from being works. As a general rule, if anyone says "We're saved by grace, BUT" then that's a bad sign. Whenever you start adding "buts" grace stops being grace.

 

[saintboniface]

Paul says works don't save you, so that none can boast. Just changing the terms doesn't stop works from being works. As a general rule, if anyone says "We're saved by grace, BUT" then that's a bad sign. Whenever you start adding "buts" grace stops being grace.

The passage you are referring to regards works of the law. Works of the law (Jewish rules such as circumcision etc) are different than works (acts of charity - feeding the hungry, visiting the sick, etc).

I took all this time to assemble these passages but nobody wants to tell me what they mean.

 

[BBAS 64]

Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ. It is granted us through Baptism. Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.

The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man's free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful.

In short, God gratuitously justifies us and gives us grace. We have done nothing to deserve this. God allows us to respond to grace through merit. Again, God freely chose to allow men to respond to grace through merit.

My question didn't ask about justification, it asked about the interpretation of the passages if works are not necessary for salvation. The plain reading of the passages says we must do works to get rewarded (reward = eternal life).

Good Day,

I understand that would teaching of your denomination along with their silly assertions, and know you buy into that unbiblical and unhistorical view of justification and salvation.

I would remind you are a guest here where debating is not allowed, I have answered your question, and I see no reason to equate (reward=eternal life) you are just plain mistaken.

Jesus tells us what eternal life is and your definition does not match his so you are incorrect, and should bring you mind under the correction of the God breathed texts.



And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

The historical view of Justification is seen here:

Chapter 11: Of Justification

1. Those whom God effectually calleth, he also freely justifieth, not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous; not for anything wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ's sake alone; not by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them, as their righteousness; but by imputing Christ's active obedience unto the whole law, and passive obedience in his death for their whole and sole righteousness by faith, which faith they have not of themselves; it is the gift of God.
( Romans 3:24; Romans 8:30; Romans 4:5-8; Ephesians 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:30, 31; Romans 5:17-19; Philippians 3:8, 9; Ephesians 2:8-10; John 1:12; Romans 5:17 )



2. Faith thus receiving and resting on Christ and his righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification; yet it is not alone in the person justified, but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces, and is no dead faith, but worketh by love.
( Romans 3:28; Galatians 5:6; James 2:17, 22, 26 )



3. Christ, by his obedience and death, did fully discharge the debt of all those that are justified; and did, by the sacrifice of himself in the blood of his cross, undergoing in their stead the penalty due unto them, make a proper, real, and full satisfaction to God's justice in their behalf; yet, inasmuch as he was given by the Father for them, and his obedience and satisfaction accepted in their stead, and both freely, not for anything in them, their justification is only of free grace, that both the exact justice and rich grace of God might be glorified in the justification of sinners.
( Hebrews 10:14; 1 Peter 1:18, 19; Isaiah 53:5, 6; Romans 8:32; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Romans 3:26; Ephesians 1:6,7; Ephesians 2:7 )



4. God did from all eternity decree to justify all the elect, and Christ did in the fullness of time die for their sins, and rise again for their justification; nevertheless, they are not justified personally, until the Holy Spirit doth in time due actually apply Christ unto them.
( Galatians 3:8; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Timothy 2:6; Romans 4:25; Colossians 1:21,22; Titus 3:4-7 )



5. God doth continue to forgive the sins of those that are justified, and although they can never fall from the state of justification, yet they may, by their sins, fall under God's fatherly displeasure; and in that condition they have not usually the light of his countenance restored unto them, until they humble themselves, confess their sins, beg pardon, and renew their faith and repentance.
( Matthew 6:12; 1 John 1:7, 9; John 10:28; Psalms 89:31-33; Psalms 32:5; Psalms 51; Matthew 26:75 )



6. The justification of believers under the Old Testament was, in all these respects, one and the same with the justification of believers under the New Testament.
( Galatians 3:9; Romans 4:22-24 )


In Him,

Bill

 

[BBAS 64]

The passage you are referring to regards works of the law. Works of the law (Jewish rules such as circumcision etc) are different than works (acts of charity - feeding the hungry, visiting the sick, etc).

I took all this time to assemble these passages but nobody wants to tell me what they mean.

Ummm

Because they have nothing to do with salvation or justification.... as the op infers..

Matthew Henry has a commentary on the whole bible read him, that will give you a start. I believe Spurgeon has preached and expounded on all those passages, his sermons are on line for free.

In Him,

Bill

 

[saintboniface]

Good Day,
I understand that would teaching of your denomination along with their silly assertions, and know you buy into that unbiblical and unhistorical view of justification and salvation.

I would remind you are a guest here where debating is not allowed, I have answered your question, and I see no reason to equate (reward=eternal life) you are just plain mistaken.

Jesus tells us what eternal life is and your definition does not match his so you are incorrect, and should bring you mind under the correction of the God breathed texts.

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

I am a guest here and debating is not allowed. You are right, when you asked all of those questions of me I should not have answered them, I should have said that I can't debate here.

What I do wish to accomplish here is to get an understanding of how baptists interpret the many bible passages that might be argued as God judging men based on his actions. When you say reward has nothing to do with salvation I honestly don't know your interpretation. From your response, I gather that you think it is obvious. But I really don't know.

Maybe I should just take my question to another forum, or maybe just listen to answers here. I don't know.

 

[Angeldove97]

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