Parenting Question

[Inkachu]

I'm posting this here because I know it'll get more attention and more replies, and that's what I need!

If your child (pre-teen) committed some offense that wound up costing you - the parents - several hundred dollars, would you try to find a way for your child to repay the entire amount to you?

Long story short: My son has already been punished for what he did. But now we're left with the fact that his actions cost us a lot of money. He's only 13, so he has no way of paying it back to us.

Would you just forego that part of the issue? Do any of you have creative ways that you dealt with a similiar situation? I can't think of any way to have him "pay us back" with money he doesn't have (and obviously, all his money comes from us to begin with), so my inclination is to just call it a loss and move on.

In the past, for smaller offenses (e.g., he once ran up about $40 on a phone bill), I simply withheld his monthly allowance until that was paid back. But for this, it would take, I don't know, three years? That's just not reasonable to me. Sure, he could do odd jobs like mowing lawns or something, but again, would never get anywhere near paying back the full amount.

Thoughts?

 

[Hetta]

Like you said, it would take a long time for him to literally pay you back what he owes, and over time, he is going to forget exactly why he is doing this, and resentment may well creep in. I have found with my kids that short, sharp punishments are more effective, because they treat the misbehavior right there and then at the point of the behavior, and then forgiveness can be extended and the issue is over. This seems like what you have already done. Is there anything coming up that would not be too much to deprive him off? For instance, a play date with friends that would cost money or a day out that he can be deprived of, so that you can say that this "pays you off"?

For instance, this month, one of my teens didn't do something he was supposed to do at school that caused my husband and I quite a lot of money and trouble. As he was supposed to be taking a trip with the school council this month, we canceled the trip and canceled the check. The amount from the check we canceled doesn't cover the debt, but it does spell out that there are consequences to actions, and not going on that trip is the consequence of his actions.

 

[akmom]

I think the concept of full financial responsibility is a little precocious for children who aren't old enough for an income. Like you said, it's absurd to make him pay it off over the course of three years. And anything less isn't really paying it off.

I guess you could look at it in terms of how long it would normally take a person to pay it off. A month? Three months? And rescind his allowance or garnish his lawn mowing money for that time. Depending on the offense, I don't think withholding allowance for a summer is outrageous. It makes him feel the financial pinch, but doesn't actually make him responsible for an impossible sum.

 

[Inkachu]

Ladies, thanks so much for weighing in. Sometimes it's really difficult to see these situations objectively, especially because my husband tends to be much more severe in his reactions (he gets much angrier and tends to want to exact a harsh punishment until he calms down; I tend to be much more calm and controlled, even if I feel the hurt and sadness deeply). My husband also sees these offenses much more personally than I do; he sees disobedience as a personal affront against him as a father. I see them as normal (albeit wrong) actions of a child growing up, testing the limits, and learning from their mistakes.

Hetta, I can't think of any upcoming treats that we could take away. I should also mention that this happened a month or two ago, and the punishment is already long over; but we found out more of the full extent of the financial cost just recently, which is why my husband was revisiting it, and got himself all angry about it again. I just kind of sighed and thought "well, we already dealt with it, it sucks that we lost this money, but we can't re-punish for it".

Akmom - I agree with you, and thank you for your thoughts! He's actually still paying off the phone bill I mentioned in my OP (the $40 one). That offense happened last October, and since his monthly allowance is $10, we're just now reaching the end of that being paid back. If he can manage to behave for the next two weeks, this will be the first month he gets his allowance again.

My struggle is really more with how to deal with my husband, I guess. I'm very much a "deal with it and get past it" person, where he tends to take things more personally and deeply and will hold onto them for a while. Losing over $300 really stinks, but I don't see any use in getting upset over it more than once, you know?

 

[Avniel]

Me I think you can teach use this to teach the cost of debt. If I were you I'd would let him know that he is in your debt because you paid for his wrong doing. You are right 3 years is a long time to teach a lesson after 3 years in jail nonviolent drug offenders don't learn their lesson they just become violent. If I were you I would weigh out chores things that need to be done, the more he does the more he "get's paid" but he has bad debt, so he get's some of the money and the rest goes to pay off debt. Of course exaggerate the prices to make the punishment last for a month.

For example, let's say the damage is 1000 dollars you had to pay. Cleaning the kitchen including mopping that's 20 dollars, cleaning the garage and reorganizing 200 dollars, helping you cook 50 dollars, babysitting 100 dollars......you can even add community service as some sort of write off 250.

It teaches hard work, the value of money and debt isn't fun. My grandpa did that one summer to me and let's say I have a credit card that I am scared to use.

 

[akmom]

Maybe you can help your husband see it like taking a hit in business.

For example, if I wreck my company truck, then my company is going to take a hit. They'll have to replace the truck, possibly pay for other damage I caused, and of course there is lost opportunity for revenue while this is all happening. But they can't ask me to buy them a new truck. I mean, it would probably take me 3 years of pay to buy them a new truck, and there's no way I would work that long without a paycheck. They can make me responsible for a portion (such as the insurance deductible, if it's reasonable) or deny me a bonus or delay a raise. But the fact is, I don't have the income to take full responsibility for company property, even if I cause the damage. The business does have that money, and it's part of doing business. So, unfortunately for them, they do eat most of the cost if I wreck their truck.

I guess a mistake like your son's is kind of like wrecking a company truck. Kids can't be fully responsible for their actions, and while you can expect them to share in the misery, you can't dump the full cost of major mistakes on them. It's just part of the cost of parenting. You can sure let them know what the bill ended up being though! You don't have to hide your shock and disappointment at this new revelation.

 

[BigDaddy4]

While you may not be able to make full financial restitution with his monthly allowance, why not have him pay it off other ways in the form of "community service"? Volunteering at a local shelter in some way, or helping out a family member or neighbor in need (yard work, walking dogs, etc), picking up trash along a public road, etc. You may not get the full value monetarily, but you would still be teaching him consequences for actions as well as a valuable life lesson of serving others in need.

 

[Inkachu]

These are good ideas, guys. Keep em coming! Avniel, and BigD, I like your ideas, especially from the male perspective.

One question I want to pose to you two though (Avniel and BigD) - do you see an issue with the fact that this offense was already dealt with? The money issue came to light today, but the offense that led to it was already revealed, dealt with, punishment handed out, and it was done with. I'm not sure I feel it's morally acceptable to "reopen" the case simply because we discovered a new detail (albeit, it was pretty shocking). Especially from the Christian perspective, because God doesn't "re-punish" us for the same offense.

Thoughts?

 

[Hetta]

Those are great ideas, I just would be wary of making the kid pay for a long, long time. It can have the opposite effect and build rebellion and resentment because the wrongdoing seems to the kid to be already over and done with, and forgiveness given, so why is he still being punished.

 

[akmom]

Well, to be fair, God doesn't have to "re-punish" us because He knows the full extent of the situation from the start.

I don't think it's necessarily wrong to re-open the case. It got "re-opened" for you by whomever sent the bill. Why should your son be shielded from this new revelation? Sometimes consequences aren't immediately forthcoming. That's worth learning too. I'd at least let him know. You can shield him from the financial consequences, but there's really no reason to shield him from the guilt.

 

[Inkachu]

Hetta - I agree. And if we're talking about repaying over $300 (even if we price "payback" chores at $10 or $20 a piece, we're still looking at months of doing this). And frankly, my son already does a LOT of chores, and I'm not sure I could think of that many big, extra projects to give him to do.

Akmom, I definitely plan on telling him about the bills we discovered. He does need to know. But as Hetta said, I don't want to toss him so deeply into a financial "hole" that he feels he's never going to get out, and he's just being punished for punishments' sake.

 

[Hetta]

But it's the same behavior that caused the bill that the kid has been punished for, it's not something new. So, what next? So in a month's time they find out something else coming out of the same event - punish him again? The Bible tells us not to provoke our children. I have done this myself to my own cost. At some point, forgiveness must be given and the slate wiped clean, otherwise you raise children who will bear a grudge forever and a day .. because that's what they learned from their parents.

 

[Inkachu]

Hetta - I agree. I really want the focus of anything actions we take to be CORRECTION, not PUNISHMENT. God corrects us and disciplines us, He doesn't hurt us just for the sake of vengeance (you hurt me, so I'm gonna hurt you!). Our son has been going through sooooo much crud lately, he's lost a lot of privileges, he's lost his allowance more than he's had it, we've talked till we're blue in the face, and there comes a point where you just can't keep piling stuff on, because you're going to wind up with an overwhelmed, resentful kid instead of one who feels he can do better and make positive, alternative choices.

 

[BigDaddy4]

These are good ideas, guys. Keep em coming! Avniel, and BigD, I like your ideas, especially from the male perspective.

One question I want to pose to you two though (Avniel and BigD) - do you see an issue with the fact that this offense was already dealt with? The money issue came to light today, but the offense that led to it was already revealed, dealt with, punishment handed out, and it was done with. I'm not sure I feel it's morally acceptable to "reopen" the case simply because we discovered a new detail (albeit, it was pretty shocking). Especially from the Christian perspective, because God doesn't "re-punish" us for the same offense.

Thoughts?

What's done is done and cannot be undone. I don't think re-opening the case will be of any benefit, but it can be used as a learning tool for all of you.

Not knowing the specifics of the offense, there has to be a lesson for you as parents in this that whatever this offense was, there were to be potiential future costs. I don't know what was done, but something that cost $300 had to be something that probably should have been know that there was a possibility of future financial costs.

The lesson for him should be that we don't always immediately know the consequences of our actions.

So, IMO, the resolution could be to inform him of the financial damage that occurred. But also let him know that you (as parents) have already punished him and had closed out the matter, so no further punishment will be forthcoming at this time. Then let him know that if something similar happens in the future, he will be responsible for any financial ramifications of his actions, even if they show up months later.

Life's lessons learned.

 

[Inkachu]

BigD - I agree with your points, although I don't know if we can say "if this happens again, you WILL have to repay it" because we'd be in the same situation; you can't produce hundreds of dollars from a 13 year old's piggy bank I'm not sure WHAT we would do if it happened again, but God willing, it won't!

 

[ValleyGal]

I'd be curious to know his conscience in the matter. Has there been sincere and genuine remorse?

Another thought is to use the situation to demonstrate the parable. Show him the bills that came out of it. Hold him responsible for them...then just as the rich man forgave the indebted man who owed millions, you can extend that same forgiveness of debt to your son. But discuss the whole parable...what eventually happened to him? He went and made someone else pay a small debt. Then the rich man put the debt back on the books. You can apply this by saying that you forgive him, but the behaviour needs to stop (whatever it was he did that cost so much). If it does not stop, the debt will be reinstated and he will then owe - he can get a summer job to pay it off (or whatever).

The principle: forgiveness should be followed by adopting forgiveness and grace as a way of being, and gratitude for grace should be followed by changed behaviour.

What a great opportunity to teach biblical truths!!

 

[BigDaddy4]

BigD - I agree with your points, although I don't know if we can say "if this happens again, you WILL have to repay it" because we'd be in the same situation; you can't produce hundreds of dollars from a 13 year old's piggy bank I'm not sure WHAT we would do if it happened again, but God willing, it won't!

Then change "will" to "may". Any MAY it not happen again!!

 

[Inkachu]

VG - yes, he is sincerely sorry and remorseful, as he has a very, very tender spirit. He is a very loving, kind, giving kid. His struggle is impulse control and accountability, and trust me, we've been working HARD on it with him.

I like your idea, that we lay out the bill, and explain that it's forgiven, but if it happens again, that shows - as you said - that his attitude and behavior hasn't changed, and he isn't grateful for the grace being extended. Just what we would do if it happens again, I have no idea, but we'll cross that bridge if we come to it (which, hopefully, we won't!).

What he did (just so people know), was he took my Kindle Fire and created his own Amazon Prime account, and signed himself up for Amazon Web Services; they were both free trials with no upfront charges, and I'm sure he wasn't thinking ahead to when they would expire and what he'd do then! So the free trials ended today, and we got hit with the full bill for both services. Plus, he wiped my Kindle so that it's useless and can't be salvaged, so we lost that cost as well. In total, about $300 worth of no-no's.

 

[WolfGate]

Pay it back? No for reason you already mentioned.

However, in addition to the punishment you implemented I would try to help him understand that money is limited and if spent one place cannot be spent another - and that impacts other people. For example, our family enjoys getting lunch at a restaurant after church on Sunday. So if our kid did that, perhaps for 4-6 weeks we would instead eat at home because the money we would have used to eat out had to pay for his mistake.

I think that helps get the same point across, and while it also impacts us and his sibling(s), it does help teach consequences and how mistakes can hurt not just himself but others.

 

[akmom]

Don't they have password protection on those things? I know, I know, it's not about what happened, but how to discipline/teach.