Parenting help, please

[cubanito]

Ah yes, lying from the child is not acceptable, but then what of Santa Claus? Or "tell them I'm not home?" In my home my wife and extended family frequently went with these "white lies.", whereas I refused to participate. The deal with my wife was, I would neither burst the bubble nor participate, but give a curt anwer of "don't ask me, I won't answer."

The result is my kids, who now run from 9 to 22yo, implicitly trust me. They know my wife and others love and wish the best for them, but when they want a straight answer, they come to me. Interestingly, my wife dosen't mind at all how it's turned out. She has always been a believer in her role as subordinate (even more than I). She has told me many times she feels free to be somewhat fuzzy about things because, when the rubber meets the road, she knows the buck stops with me.


But as that be, I hit only one daughter once. It was one single rap on the head with my hand (and not very hard). For them, other punishments worked just fine. Now my son was another matter. Still, last time I hit him he was 9yo. That time he did not deserve it and I did in fact lose it with him. So, when it was over, I told him that as my punishment, I would be his slave for a day. My next free day I spent it at his total beck and call. He told my wife he wished I'd lose it more often, considering the reward to him.

We should show our children the willingness to "punish" ourselves when we are in the wrong.

I personally never hit them for simply lying, but for clear, confrontational disobedience.

 

[GrinningDwarf]

Ah yes, lying from the child is not acceptable, but then what of Santa Claus?

Wanna know how we did 'Santa Claus'? We always told our kids that Santa is a fun game we play...and then went ahead and had our Santa fun! We never lied to them about it.

 

[cubanito]

Excellent

My parents say I was an old man from the day I was born. They were not believers, and brought me up with all the sillyness. One of my vivid memories is the great disapointment IN MY PARENTS when I figured out it was all a lie.

They also told me that women got pregnant by swallowing watermelon seeds. So I asked what would happen were I to accidentally swallow one. They told me a tree would grow and the branches come out my ears. Well, to this day I'm compulsively careful about watermelon seeds, despite my medical training.

My father was brought up with the notion that he could get a stroke if he cut his hair after eating. He also is a physician, and he went for a haircut a half hour after lunch once. Sitting in the chair, halfway through he remembered having lunch. This 60+yo man began to puke right there.

I strength of some of these childhood white lies is incredible sometimes.

JR

 

[Reformationist]

So, when it was over, I told him that as my punishment, I would be his slave for a day. My next free day I spent it at his total beck and call.

Wow...

Looking back, do you feel it was an appropriate response to your mistake?

God bless

 

[erin74]

We are getting past the smacking thing too with our oldest (nearly 5). The youngest actually doesn't cope very well with smacking, so the threat is all that is needed generally. Very rarely have we had to smack him.

For things of the mouth we stole a friends idea. Any lying, teasing, swearing (not that we've got there yet), etc the oldest has to bite the soap. Not take a bite out of it - just put indentations in it. We have told him that lying is not something that is ok. He went through a stage of lying for a while, and is revisiting it at the moment. Just little stuff. So we lay off the other behaviours and focus completely on the lying so that he can see that we value the truth more than the good behaviour. We would rather he owned up to other bad behaviour than lied about it. But he is a lot younger.

As for Santa - we say it is dress ups and will go along with it if they want to, but they know it's not real.

I am wondering though if there is something else going on with your daughter - have you asked her if there is a problem at school or something. I just wonder if the homework behaviour is possibly a symptom of something else happening. Have you had her eyes checked lately? Could she have a hearing problem? A change of friends at school? Bullying? Not understanding some of the work? Specific Learning Disorders (eg dyslexia)? Often with something like that going on a child will try and hide the problem, which could be what she is doing. I would try and work out if there is something going on before you jump to discipline over it - you want to remain approachable to your children. And you want them to know that they can tell you the truth - no matter what it is. That lying is a bigger issue to you than her not doing the homework.

 

[cubanito]

Wow...

Looking back, do you feel it was an appropriate response to your mistake?

God bless

Yep, and I also told him he could hit me if he chose instead. The kid is smart, better a personal slave for a day than a moment of satisfaction.

I firmly believe whoever is in authority must lead by example, and drive himself harder than anyone else. Seems Scriptural to me.

Love the soap idea for lying. I am going toinform my 9yo of the "new policy".

JR

 

[McWilliams]

Oh horrors! I can still remember the horror of having to wash my mouth with soap after shouting 'oh gosh' when I was about 8 yrs old!! What gross humiliation!!

 

[Reformationist]

Yep, and I also told him he could hit me if he chose instead.

You abdicated your God appointed position of authority and gave your child permission to hit you because you made a mistake?

Um...not wanting to put you on the defensive but, why didn't you just acknowledge your error, apologize for it, and then move on. Even if what you did turned out okay, it seems a rather strange thing to associate your authority with having to be mistake free. Such behavior would seem to imply that losing one's authority is the appropriate result for making a mistake. I agree that certain mistakes warrant such a result but I would not think that a rap on the side of the head qualifies.

Oh well, different strokes for different folks. Again, not trying to offend.

God bless

 

[heymikey80]

I can only offer some of the thinking that comes out around those years, and some comments on how this will form the foundation for her later actions and thinking and principles. I think it may be that concentrating on behavior as behavior alone will be problematic. There are a variety of different forces that could be at work here, and just forcing kiddo's nose to the grindstone -- as you've discovered -- doesn't even solve the immediate problem any more. That normally means there's a problem that must be addressed in her life. And it's not her schoolwork.

I can only speak for myself, but it was around these years that I experimented to find out what really matters about my life. I didn't have enough sense of self to understand why school was important, or what it was really trying to accomplish. And I doubt I would've known how to apply that knowledge if I was simply told it. If your 2d grader doesn't see the depth of importance to what she's doing, you can see how this might erupt later in adolescence.

I found my ideas of right and wrong deviated from teachers put in charge of me. I found this was the first age where I saw adults (particularly my teachers, not my parents) as hypocritical, and I couldn't find the line that made sense of what they were doing.

And I was bored. Bored right out of my skull in school. The only thing that made school exciting was to see how little I could get away with doing -- really re-doing, because my first grade teacher had already taught most of what I was learning in second grade, and I was reading my 5th grade sister's books about history while struggling to stay awake through 2d grade history class.

 

[heymikey80]

You abdicated your God appointed position of authority and gave your child permission to hit you because you made a mistake?

Hm. There are many times people in authority delegate special derivative authority in response to undergoing some adversity. Those who stand firm in their submission to injustice are worthy of special honor.

If that means flipping the tables on our own derivative authority for a day, I'm not sure I see the problem.

People often reward their kids with powers on a birthday or some such -- I wonder if this reward makes sense for good behavior under an unjust punishment.

 

[cubanito]

You abdicated your God appointed position of authority and gave your child permission to hit you because you made a mistake?

Um...not wanting to put you on the defensive but, why didn't you just acknowledge your error, apologize for it, and then move on. Even if what you did turned out okay, it seems a rather strange thing to associate your authority with having to be mistake free. Such behavior would seem to imply that losing one's authority is the appropriate result for making a mistake. I agree that certain mistakes warrant such a result but I would not think that a rap on the side of the head qualifies.

Oh well, different strokes for different folks. Again, not trying to offend.

God bless

Not at all on the defensive.

Frankly I don't understand your point at all. I did not abdicate my authority at all.

Being his slave for a day did not mean he could order me to do immorality, or that he made up the rules. Rather, I was at his beck and call. In general I act like that towards my wife whenever I'm with her, from the symbolic opening of the car door to always giving her the remote, getting the telephone ect. With 4 kids, I just can't go out of my way for everybody. That day I was his special servant.

Had he instead chosen to hit me back, I still do not understand how that is abdicating my authority. I acknowledged I was in error. I decided what the possible remedies were and gave a choice. How is that abdicating authority?

Is it not that he who would lead that should most be the servant?

JR

 

[Rick Otto]

you made an especialy good point!

 

[Reformationist]

Not at all on the defensive.

Oh good.

Frankly I don't understand your point at all. I did not abdicate my authority at all.

Being his slave for a day did not mean he could order me to do immorality, or that he made up the rules. Rather, I was at his beck and call. In general I act like that towards my wife whenever I'm with her, from the symbolic opening of the car door to always giving her the remote, getting the telephone ect. With 4 kids, I just can't go out of my way for everybody. That day I was his special servant.

Had he instead chosen to hit me back, I still do not understand how that is abdicating my authority.

Let me clarify that I always think it's a good thing when parents/those in authority acknowledge when they make a mistake and take appropriate steps to atone for their mistakes when they do commit them. That said, giving your child the opportunity and permission to strike you, even if you felt that they would not actually do so, is, in my opinion, an inappropriate response to both your regret for your mistake and the mistake itself.

Let me explain. My position on this deals directly with what I understand to be the sole basis for the proper administration of corporal punishment. For now, that is the issue I am addressing because simply "hitting" isn't something either you or your child should be doing, even if one of you makes that mistake, i.e., you should not simply "hit" your child because they hit your, nor should your child "hit" you because you did so to them. As I understand it, corporal punishment should always and only be administered in cases of willful rebellion. Therefore, for corporal punishment to be justified, there must have been an act of rebellion. Rebellion, by its very nature, necessitates that there be an authority that has been defied. In the standard case of a parent and a child, it would be the child violating the parent's authority by willfully disobeying.

In the scenario you describe, it sounds as if you are granting your child permission to respond inappropriately to your inappropriate behavior, which has nothing to do with the proper administration of corporal punishment.

It is clear that you felt bad about your inappropriate behavior. I have made similar mistakes myself so I can empathize with what you felt. However, I cannot see how giving your child permission to strike you was purposed to teach them something.

Maybe that is where I'm getting confused. By giving your child the right to strike you, what was it you were trying to teach them?

I acknowledged I was in error. I decided what the possible remedies were and gave a choice. How is that abdicating authority?

Well, I guess the thing that seems most obvious to me is that you saw giving your child permission to hit you as a "possible remedy."

Is it not that he who would lead that should most be the servant?

JR

I am not sure what servant quality you feel is expressed by granting your child permission to strike you.

I think serving our children (though not necessarily in the capacity that you describe) is a great way to show them our love for them. What you describe seems more like an attempt to ease your conscious for a mistake. You know, like when a young child hits another child and then, to keep the one who got hit from telling, says, "Hey, you go ahead and hit me back. It'll be fine. You don't need to tell. Hit me back."

Anyway, I'm just confused. I pray that this does not offend.

God bless