Parenting help, please

[Proeliator]

A little background. We have 3 kids, 8, 6 and 6 weeks. 3rd grade, 1st grade, and none, respectively. When the baby was on the way, we were worried the 6 yr old boy would have some issues dealing with not being the baby anymore, etc. Luckily, that has not been the case.


Now, on to the big problem. Our 8 yr old daughter has always been a rock, did as she was asked, studied well, etc. On Nov 13th, we went to Parent-Teacher conferences, and received disturbing news. We found out that she had been hiding homework from us, and lying to her teacher about where it was; and then when notes were sent home, she had her grandmother sign them instead, so we didn't see them. Now today, we get a phone call home from the teacher, that she is missing homework again. On the walk home from school, she acted as though all was well, nothing amiss. We think that it may partially be that she is jealous of the attention that the baby gets, which really can't be avoided. We have already taken away her computer, video games, almost everything she can do in her free time. We are now at a loss as to how to deal with this. So I come seeking wisdom from others, that may have some ideas we just haven't thought of.

 

[Reformationist]

Now, on to the big problem. Our 8 yr old daughter has always been a rock, did as she was asked, studied well, etc. On Nov 13th, we went to Parent-Teacher conferences, and received disturbing news. We found out that she had been hiding homework from us, and lying to her teacher about where it was; and then when notes were sent home, she had her grandmother sign them instead, so we didn't see them.

Now today, we get a phone call home from the teacher, that she is missing homework again. On the walk home from school, she acted as though all was well, nothing amiss.

I'm curious about this. I'm going to take it for granted that your 8 year old knows that lying is unacceptable. That being the case, what would prompt the grandmother to sign notes in your stead and not tell you about it?

Please understand that an act of intentional dishonesty by an 8 year old, if it is truly an issue of lying, is always and only willful rebellion. There is a proper way to deal with willful rebellion but it seems you lean more towards the method of taking away entertainment priviledges as a response. I would encourage another method. While I would agree that removing those priviledges is appropriate, it is an appropriate action only in response to the issue of her failure to meet her school responsibilities. If you are confident that your 8 year old is aware that lying is unacceptable, then taking away priviledges in response to that type of rebellion isn't necessarily appropriate. There should be separate ways of dealing with rebellion and irresponsibility. In response to the issue of irresponsibility, your daughter should be grounded from those things you mentioned, i.e., computer, video games, entertainment, and made to complete all of the work she missed, or at least, replacement work if the original work is unavailable. That type of disobedience should be dealt with by establishing a response that attempts to restore things to their original status/right the wrong. For instance, if you tell your child to not throw the baseball near the house and they disobey and end up breaking the window, you would require them to pay to replace the broken window or, if that's not possible, do extra work to pay off the debt that you have now incurred. In addition, their act of disobedience was rebellious as well as destructive. If they heard your prohibition against playing ball near the house but decided to do it anyway, they are simply ignoring your authority. Up to a certain point/age, I would address the rebellion with a spanking, as I suggest you address the issue of your 8 year old lying to you.

We think that it may partially be that she is jealous of the attention that the baby gets, which really can't be avoided.

While this very well may be true, she is 8. This means that, by now, she should be able to express her displeasure/jealousy in a more productive way. Lying is certainly not acceptable. Please don't make the mistake of creating an excuse for your daughter's rebelliousness. She has earned her punishment, even if it is painful. Your recognition of her situation may prompt you to spend more individualized time with her to offset her feelings of neglect but you should never impose that recognition in order to avoid training your child to respond appropriately.

Hope that helps.

God bless

 

[cubanito]

First, control your temper. If you think you have, take a deep breath, count to ten and control yourself some more.

Now, make very clear boundaries that include suitable punishment (no TV for a week or somesuch), and then enforce it rigorously.

Then, as the 8 yo girl displays her God-given talent for manipulation, and in total unity w your spouse (and I mean TOTAL unity, any differences to be discussed in private), take more deep breaths and try to remain cool and calm while enforcing whatever punishment seemed fitting to both of you.

In my family, my wife screams, threatens, hits, and generally loses it with the kids. I rarely punish. Yet the kids fear me. Because I usu. punish in cold blood, and if a threat is made, you can take that to the bank. So when there's a problem, and after discussing it with my wife, I calmly and clearly explain the boundaries.

I suggest that you generally go easy on what you described, but whatever you and wife together decide to be appropiate DO NOT CHANGE.

At 8yo the need for predictability is very, very high.

JR

 

[Reformationist]

I had thought that exhibiting self control on your part was a given but, honestly, cubanito raises a good point. Any time you govern over a situation, even one that has you feeling like an early vasectomy would have been a better option (kidding of course), self control on your part is not only important, it's an absolute must. A parent loses all credibility (trust me I know this first hand) when they dole out punishment for inacceptable behavior in an inacceptable fashion. At best you'll come off as hypocritical. At worst, well, teaching them becomes much harder.

With that said, even those times when you lose it (and I'm sure you've already encountered them) present opportunities for a godly pursuit of reconciliation. A parent can teach their child quite a bit by humbling themselves and apologizing for their own inappropriate behavior.

God bless

 

[kimlva]

I have an 8 year old, and while she is definitely old enough to know that lying is wrong, if another authority figure in her life were "helping" her to do so, I am sure she would be greatly confused. Personally, I'd definitely see to getting that grandmother situation straightened out. She is usurping your authority, as well as teaching sinful behavior to your daughter.

(Unless, of course, there is some mental or memory problem involved with the grandma. In which case it still needs to be addressed, but differently.)

 

[Reformationist]

I have an 8 year old, and while she is definitely old enough to know that lying is wrong, if another authority figure in her life were "helping" her to do so, I am sure she would be greatly confused. Personally, I'd definitely see to getting that grandmother situation straightened out. She is usurping your authority, as well as teaching sinful behavior to your daughter.

(Unless, of course, there is some mental or memory problem involved with the grandma. In which case it still needs to be addressed, but differently.)

Very true. Good point.

God bless

 

[bradfordl]

We have a Grandma in an attached apartment who is likely unregenerate. We love her and are committed to taking care of her, but there have been struggles over certain issues that we have had to deal with. We have learned to politely yet firmly lay down the rules of conduct that are and are not acceptable. Lying for the children is not.... ever.

An 8 year-old's bad behavior should not be excused on account of jealousy over a sibling. The addition to the family is to HER family as well as yours. She will have responsibilities as will everyone else. The flesh will always seek reasons and excuses for ungodly behavior, and the world is always at the ready to supply them. Jealousy over a sibling is described in scripture as the characteristic of a wicked heart. A study of that may help your daughter.

Out of curiosity, is your daughter in a government school?

 

[AndOne]

Good advice from these folks - so I won't add any - but just curious to know - do any of you folks spank?

 

[GrinningDwarf]

Good advice from these folks - so I won't add any - but just curious to know - do any of you folks spank?

It's an appropriate consequence in our house...although we havn't had to resort to it for years...at least two, that I can recall, and our kids are 9 and 7. The kids know now there is a consequence for rebellion in our house and we get things straightened out before it gets there now. (Although I do admit the 7-year-old has been 'testing the waters' lately, especially during their home-school day.)

 

[cygnusx1]

A little background. We have 3 kids, 8, 6 and 6 weeks. 3rd grade, 1st grade, and none, respectively. When the baby was on the way, we were worried the 6 yr old boy would have some issues dealing with not being the baby anymore, etc. Luckily, that has not been the case.


Now, on to the big problem. Our 8 yr old daughter has always been a rock, did as she was asked, studied well, etc. On Nov 13th, we went to Parent-Teacher conferences, and received disturbing news. We found out that she had been hiding homework from us, and lying to her teacher about where it was; and then when notes were sent home, she had her grandmother sign them instead, so we didn't see them. Now today, we get a phone call home from the teacher, that she is missing homework again. On the walk home from school, she acted as though all was well, nothing amiss. We think that it may partially be that she is jealous of the attention that the baby gets, which really can't be avoided. We have already taken away her computer, video games, almost everything she can do in her free time. We are now at a loss as to how to deal with this. So I come seeking wisdom from others, that may have some ideas we just haven't thought of.

Hi bro , thanks for being so open .
It is real difficult raising children , my first thoughts are it may be nothing to do with the new baby , often children are put under peer pressure at school and avoid conforming (I know all about that) , and sometimes children will act oddly if they are not happy. I was not happy as a child , I brought homework home once , and my Dad wacked me across the knuckles with a ruller because I couldn't get the Math right ....... I didn't ever bring homework home again , even though it lead to being caned .
I think lying is the root issue here , so I would suggest spend plenty of time with your daughter , really get to know her , and see if you can see what it is that triggers the need to lie.
Above all remember love , love conquers all.

Greetings
Cygnus

 

[kimlva]

Good advice from these folks - so I won't add any - but just curious to know - do any of you folks spank?

Yep. But my oldest has always been obedient, and never needed but maybe 3 spankings in her life. My youngest was a totally different story, but still, it wasn't needed very often. Only for direct defiance or if the thing she had done was dangerous. They are 12 and 8 now, and haven't needed spanked in ages.

 

[cygnusx1]

Good advice from these folks - so I won't add any - but just curious to know - do any of you folks spank?

not for years , but it did have to be done a few times then all that was needed was a warning

 

[Reformationist]

Good advice from these folks - so I won't add any - but just curious to know - do any of you folks spank?

I alluded to that type of corrective discipline in my first post and, yes, I employ it as a means for correction in certain situations, i.e., willful disobedience. Thanks to some dilligence in the very early stages of parenting, my two oldest (10 and 9) have not merited a spanking in quite some time. My 5 year old, well, he's a different story.

God bless

 

[rmwilliamsll]

Good advice from these folks - so I won't add any - but just curious to know - do any of you folks spank?

we had just talked about this at our life group Sunday afternoon. Everyone in the group has little kids except us, our youngest is 23.

we completely stopped spanking when #4 was about 5 years old and informed us that we were welcome to spank him as hard as we liked, it didn't hurt him and he wasn't going to change because of the spanking. if your kids think you are trying to hurt and punish them with spanking it is time to find another discipline technique. hurting them is not the point, the point is to get their attention and to help them listen to you. there are better ways for most kids.



hey, that kid graduates from university in 2 weeks....

as to the OP problem.
i'll add my voice to the chorus that says "lying is a big problem and a big deal".
we only had trouble with it with one daughter and that was puberty and rebellion.
i don't know how i would have approached the problem with an 8 year old. it was wise to ask for counsel, it is not going to be a simple solution.

the best to you. i too will raise up a prayer for your wisdom and your daughter's change of heart.

 

[calmcoolandelected]

Good advice from these folks - so I won't add any - but just curious to know - do any of you folks spank?

Usta, mine are teens now. I still threaten with, "if you are going to act like a five-year old, I'll treat you like a five-year old"....

The Mean Mom

 

[mlqurgw]

I spanked my daughters until they were about 10 or 11 I think. I tried to never spank them when I was angry but would send them to their room to contemplate why they were geting a spanking and when I had calmed down would go and administer punishment. I then left them to consider it some more and later went and talked with them about why they got the punishment and why I did it. They are both grown now and both tell me that the spankings were nothing compared to the talks afterward. I never lost one minutes sleep over my daughters getting into something when they began to go out on their own. They never broke my trust that I know of. I made more than my share of mistakes in parenting to be sure. Still, I have to say that both my daughters turned out extremely well in spite of me. My constant prayer for them, then and now, is that the Lord would keep them from the sin that is in them. They are my children and they got their nature from me. I have no delusions that they were perfect but God has been gracious. Both are believers now.

 

[AndOne]

Thanks for the feedback guys -

I spank as well - but as the kids get older the less necessary it has become - (like with most here it seems). I'm having a tough time with my daughter - (discipling her that is) - she is definately Daddy's little girl - please pray for me to not give in to that...

Thanks ya'll...

 

[Rick Otto]

Sounds like Grandma needs a spanking!

Maybe if oldest daughter is rewarded with dinner & a movie, or a shopping spree at dollar General for feeding and playing with baby, she'll gain a new perspective.
Address the cause & the symptoms might clear.

Maybe she's learned some new tricks from a new school chum?

My first son was hardly ever a problem & is now 30, happily married, great job, condo, car, -no children yet.

Son #2 has a much sharper wit & keener mind, but at 17, is looking like revenge in spades for my own misspent adolescence.

My dad was hillbilly hard with discipline, but it didn't help me at all, probably made things worse.
I prefer to let reality do the punishing, but success still seems like a crap-shoot(it's a dice game, ladies).

When #2 was just on his feet, I remember him striking a defiant pose, saying "NO!" to my instruction. I leaned over & gave is diapered bottom a swat, just enough to make his knees wobble. The sudden loss of dignity was enough to humble him for the moment.
When he was 2, he was sittin' on the floor demanding something inappropriate. I said no, he begtan to cry, & then started leaning over, watching me. I thought,"Wha...?" He was actualy going to bang his head on the floor to punish me! I couldn't believe it! My jaw dropped in disbelief... BANG! He did it, instantly crying harder, still watching me for effect. I didn't know it at the time but he had some success with this w/mother. I was momentarily stunned, then I began to laugh, & I poionted at him as I did, so he wouldn't be confused. Through his tears, he knew he was busted & began to laugh with me.
It is a perfect metaphor for our current situation.
I have counseled him appropriately, & his screw-ups & consequences he owns exclusively. I am responsible, but not guilty.
He knows that when he doesn't get his schoolwork done & slacks off on helpin' with chores that his self-esteem takes a dive, & if he chooses a feel-good escape behavior that it sends his esteem into a descending spiral, a fate worse than any severe beating I could hand out (believe me I'm tempted).

His mother was "NO SPANKING" until she saw it worked when I did it. I only did it occaisionaly, immediately, and without malice, but not hiding my annoyance, either.
As with my 1st son, it worked so well that I didn't need it anymore by 5yrs old. His mother did, tho. She would use a paddle & make a ritual out of it. I think she continued until he was 9 or 10.

There are some basic communication style issues we have that are hangovers from our own families & upbringing. I rely a lot on prayer and patience, hoping a good example will help. Sometimes it does. Sometimes it doesn't
The Lord giveth & The Lord taketh away, blessed be The Name of The Lord.

 

[GrinningDwarf]

I'm having a tough time with my daughter - (discipling her that is) - she is definately Daddy's little girl - please pray for me to not give in to that...

I hear that!! I have to always tell my little girl "You're not gonna cute your way out of this one."

 

[edie19]

First let me state (strongly) that I'm extremely glad my kids are now adults.

Grandparents can be a mixed blessing. My mother-in-law lived ~ 2 miles from us when my kids were growing up - she was widowed shortly after my oldest was born and ti a certain degree my son filled the void left in her life (she told me on more than one occasion that he was her only reason for living). While I appreciated her willingness to help with childcare - there were also great difficulties. Even my kids would admit that she never once told them no about anything. She questioned both my husband's and my authority more than once. Needless to say that made our relationship very strained at times.

Now some background on me - as an 8year old I was inclined to lie to my parents - not for any special reason, not to necessarily keep out of trouble - just because sometimes it was easier and/or more interesting (think the little boy who cried wolf). But like the boy in the story, I learned that not having the trust of my parents was a very serious issue. My mother was one of those disciplinarians who could say, in a very quiet voice, "oh Edie, I'm so disappointed." and make me want to crawl under a rock. Suddenly not having my parent's trust was a very serious matter to me - and I worked and worked to regain it. It took years - but I became obsessed with telling them the truth.

Gee - just realized that I haven't really offered any guidance.