Papacy applauds LGBT progress

[BobRyan]

Pope Francis wants church to study civil unions, Cardinal Dolan says

But according to the Catholic News Service, it was the first time a pope has "indicated even tentative acceptance of civil unions."
When asked for his own views on same-sex marriage, Dolan said he is concerned it could "water down" the sanctity of traditional marriage.


"It's not something that's just a religious, sacramental concern," Dolan said. "It's also the building block of society and culture. So it belongs to culture. And if we water down that sacred meaning of marriage in any way, I worry that not only the church would suffer, I worry that culture and society would.”


Dolan was also asked about Michael Sam, the Univ. of Missouri football player, likely an NFL draft pick, who recently came out as gay.


"Good for him," Dolan said. "I would have no sense of judgment on him. God bless ya. I don't think, look, the same bible that tells us that teaches us well about the virtues of chastity and the virtue of fidelity and marriage also tells us not to judge people. So I would say, 'Bravo.'"

So then - there was this interesting case where the church in Rome suddenly came into favor with the Emperor and started including pagan ideas into the worship service as a way to get more of the empire under one umbrella. Unity at the expense of doctrine -- Tony Palmer style.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[yogosans14]

Why are Seventh Day Adventists so obsessed with the RCC?

Who cares if the Papacy is becoming more liberal, it doesnt effect me.

 

[Rhamiel]

the Pope, back when he was a Bishop Bergoglio in Argentina worked to stop Gay Marriage legislation in Argentina

in meetings with the other Bishops of Argentina, there was a debate about how to stop Gay Marriage legislation, Bishop Bergoglio (now Pope Francis) said that to stop Gay Marriage, maybe seeing if a compromise could be met with Civil Unions

this would be for legal reasons, the Church would not accept or recognize such unions as being licit

at the same time, Catholics can understand why Homosexual couples would want legal protection for property rights and next of kin type issues

 

[BobRyan]

the Pope, back when he was a Bishop Bergoglio in Argentina worked to stop Gay Marriage legislation in Argentina

in meetings with the other Bishops of Argentina, there was a debate about how to stop Gay Marriage legislation, Bishop Bergoglio (now Pope Francis) said that to stop Gay Marriage, maybe seeing if a compromise could be met with Civil Unions

this would be for legal reasons, the Church would not accept or recognize such unions as being licit

at the same time, Catholics can understand why Homosexual couples would want legal protection for property rights and next of kin type issues

I am curious as to how this statement fits in

Dolan was also asked about Michael Sam, the Univ. of Missouri football player, likely an NFL draft pick, who recently came out as gay.


"Good for him," Dolan said. "I would have no sense of judgment on him. God bless ya. I don't think, look, the same bible that tells us that teaches us well about the virtues of chastity and the virtue of fidelity and marriage also tells us not to judge people. So I would say, 'Bravo.'"

Isn't that like saying "bravo she is in favor of voting for abortion" for the RCC???

in Christ,

Bob

 

[PaladinValer]

The issue at hand is not marriage or sex, but the right to property, next of kin, powers of attorney, etc.

As such, there is nothing the Pope said that constitute what the original posts postulates.

 

[Rhamiel]

The issue at hand is not marriage or sex, but the right to property, next of kin, powers of attorney, etc.

As such, there is nothing the Pope said that constitute what the original posts postulates.

I think that all of those issues of joint property and power of attorney could be cleared up with just an attorney instead of changing the definition of Marriage or creating some Civil Union type thing

 

[Hentenza]

Thread moved to CCA from GT.

 

[New Legacy]

Pope Francis wants church to study civil unions, Cardinal Dolan says



So then - there was this interesting case where the church in Rome suddenly came into favor with the Emperor and started including pagan ideas into the worship service as a way to get more of the empire under one umbrella. Unity at the expense of doctrine -- Tony Palmer style.

in Christ,

Bob

That never happened. That is a myth put forth by SDAs to justify their existence. The Church could possibly tolerate legal unions that offer legal benefits to another person. Homosexual behavior still remains and always will be wrong.

 

[PaladinValer]

I think that all of those issues of joint property and power of attorney could be cleared up with just an attorney instead of changing the definition of Marriage or creating some Civil Union type thing

IMO, the entire concept of "marriage" in terms of the government is something economic and social, not moral and certainly not religious, and finally, is something relatively recent, whereas the historic idea of "marriage" is ancient, religious, and moral.

If the government at all levels simply got rid of the very term "marriage" and adopted "civil union" and simply allowed unioned people to call their recognized union whatever they wished, that in and of itself should solve the issue right there.

 

[Yarddog]

So then - there was this interesting case where the church in Rome suddenly came into favor with the Emperor and started including pagan ideas into the worship service as a way to get more of the empire under one umbrella. Unity at the expense of doctrine -- Tony Palmer style.

in Christ,

Bob

The Pope, in no way, has spoken in support of gay marriage. He has stood firm on the Church's stance but he does understand the difference between the sacrament of marriage and a state instituted civil union to protect the rights of homosexual citizens.

As far as the what Mr. Ryan adds, it just shows his utter lack of knowledge about the history of the Church.

 

[tulc]

I think that all of those issues of joint property and power of attorney could be cleared up with just an attorney instead of changing the definition of Marriage or creating some Civil Union type thing

thing is? doesn't that make them second class citizens if they have to pay an attorney to get what other people get by simply signing a piece of paper and going through a ceremony?
tulc(just curious)

 

[Rhamiel]

thing is? doesn't that make them second class citizens if they have to pay an attorney to get what other people get by simply signing a piece of paper and going through a ceremony?
tulc(just curious)

well, not really, homosexuals have the same rights as anyone else, a homosexual man can marry whatever woman who will marry him, same right as any straight man


we have it set up where the next of kin gets everything that a dead person had

now if that person wants to write up a will and give it to someone other then their next of kin, well they probably have to get an attorney to help them write up a will

as it is, homosexuals have the same rights as anyone else
having preverted unions recognized by the state is NOT an intrinsic right

 

[Habbit Animal]

Look for his announcement that the church will perform civil unions. Or full on gay marriages in those few states that permit such an abomination.

Next, transsexual priests!

Pope Francis wants church to study civil unions, Cardinal Dolan says



So then - there was this interesting case where the church in Rome suddenly came into favor with the Emperor and started including pagan ideas into the worship service as a way to get more of the empire under one umbrella. Unity at the expense of doctrine -- Tony Palmer style.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Rhamiel]

Look for his announcement that the church will perform civil unions. Or full on gay marriages in those few states that permit such an abomination.

Next, transsexual priests!

sodomy has always been recognized as a sin in the Catholic Church

We even see contraceptive sex as being sinful

you are NOT going to see gay marriage or civil unions in the Church

 

[tulc]

well, not really, homosexuals have the same rights as anyone else, a homosexual man can marry whatever woman who will marry him, same right as any straight man


we have it set up where the next of kin gets everything that a dead person had

now if that person wants to write up a will and give it to someone other then their next of kin, well they probably have to get an attorney to help them write up a will

as it is, homosexuals have the same rights as anyone else
having preverted unions recognized by the state is NOT an intrinsic right

Yep, second class citizens. They don't have the same rights because you're deciding who two adults can or can't marry. Seems pretty obvious really. You can dress it up as much as you like but that's what it gets down to.
tulc(just a thought)

 

[Rhamiel]

they have the same rights as any other citizen

people of the same sex do not have the right to enter into a marriage with each other

 

[New Legacy]

Look for his announcement that the church will perform civil unions. Or full on gay marriages in those few states that permit such an abomination.

Next, transsexual priests!

You do not seem to understand Catholicism. What we believe has always been believed. The Pope has no authority to change what we believe. We are not like protestant churches that change their beliefs to fit with the times.

How we deal with the world does change. Not opposing civil unions does not contradict what we believe. I believe fornication is wrong, but we do not make laws against it.

 

[Rhamiel]

I believe fornication is wrong, but we do not make laws against it.

that is the best way to explain what the Pope and some Catholics are talking about when it comes to Civil unions

they are not for it... but it is possible, that in SOME countries, Catholics will have to accept the idea of civil unions for homosexuals

this is not a "done deal" we are just talking about possibilities for now

 

[tulc]

they have the same rights as any other citizen

people of the same sex do not have the right to enter into a marriage with each other

actually yes they can in 17 different States, they're just considered second class citizens in some States, not all of them anymore.
tulc(suspects they will have equal rights in all States soon)

 

[Rhamiel]

actually yes they can in 17 different States, they're just considered second class citizens in some States, not all of them anymore.
tulc(suspects they will have equal rights in all States soon)

in pagan ancient Rome, the Father would have the right to leave his child outside to die if he suspected for any reason that the child was not his or if there was any defect found in the child

so.... just because the State says you can do something, it does not mean that there is a true intrinsic God given right