paganism in the churches

[coolhandluke]

well then, people worship an awful lot. people do those kind of things with lots of stuff. it doesn't mean they're worshipping them. you cherish your kids, you lovingly dress them, you spend money on them, you devote time to them, etc. do you worship them? no. people don't worship their christmas trees. at least not the mass majority of them. they think they're pretty, and it's tradition. i don't cherish my tree, i don't decorate it (my sister, mother, and father do though), we don't spend money on it (we get a real tree, and my father cuts it down, we live near lots of trees, and we have plenty of decorations, that yes, we probably spent money on at one time), we spend what, a couple of hours cutting it down and decorating it?, yes we admire it, we think it's pretty, and we usually stick it wherever there's room that year. i really don't think that sounds like worshipping. i think people are making way too big of a deal out of it. if someone is not doing it as a pagan ritual in their heart, then what's the problem. today, christmas has to do with Christ. well, actually it has to do with an excuse to buy and receive presents and get together with family for most people, but still. don't make something a big deal that's not. and how dare you even begin to suggest that people that have christmas trees are not Christians, are not sold out to Christ. the strongest Christian i know celebrates christmas, and has a christmas tree. that doesn't make him any less devoted to God. if you feel convicted to not celebrate Christmas, and not have a christmas tree, then that's fine, but don't get so self-righteous over it, to begin making comments about how people that do that are not Christians.

-katie

 

[ZiSunka]

if someone is not doing it as a pagan ritual in their heart, then what's the problem.

So, if I shave my head and go into a Buddhist monestary for two years of meditation on the meaning of life, but I say I'm not doing it to be a buddhist, is that okay?

If I go into a mosque and bow down with the others and chant Moslem prayers, but I say that I'm not doing it to honor allah, is that okay?

If I go to a wiccan festival and participate in a mock human sacrifice, but I say I'm only doing it for fun, is that okay?

If I go to a pagan festival and participate in animal sacrifices, but I say I'm not worshipping their gods, is that okay?

How far do you want to take that?

 

[coolhandluke]

as i said in my above post, it no longer has the same meaning today, that it did then. it's no longer meant as a pagan ritual. christmas in this country today, has to do with celebrating the birth of Christ, in it's purest form. it may be the same time as some pagan ritual, and it may have similar elements of some pagan ritual, but it's NOT a pagan ritual.

 

[aggie03]

My question would be where are we in the Bible commanded to celebrate Christmas?

 

[Havoc]

If I go to a wiccan festival and participate in a mock human sacrifice, but I say I'm only doing it for fun, is that okay?

Hmmm in over 160 Pagan festivals I've been to I've never seen a mock human sacrifice. What would be the purpose of a mock human sacrifice? We don't do real human sacrifices, it would be against our prime tenet. Why would we want to then have a mock one?

Are you sure your not confusing it with the simulated cannibalism of the Christian Communion Ritual?

Havoc

 

[Susan]

Hey, this is for Christians only.
Aggie, a question. Where in the Bible are we given an express command to breathe?
And if you can't find it, please don't stop breathing.

 

[ZiSunka]

Originally posted by Havoc


Hmmm in over 160 Pagan festivals I've been to I've never seen a mock human sacrifice. What would be the purpose of a mock human sacrifice? We don't do real human sacrifices, it would be against our prime tenet. Why would we want to then have a mock one?

Are you sure your not confusing it with the simulated cannibalism of the Christian Communion Ritual?

Havoc

You've not been to the same ones I have I guess.  I found it was really common, back when I was searching for my spirituality and investigating all the different religions. 

My aunts, who are witches, have them fairly frequently, with one aunt even having one at her wedding.  The symbolism was that she was dead to the single life, and starting a new life as a wife.

You obviously aren't the only pagan group out there, and many others do the mock sacrifice.

 

[ZiSunka]

Originally posted by Susan
Hey, this is for Christians only.
Aggie, a question. Where in the Bible are we given an express command to breathe?
And if you can't find it, please don't stop breathing.

God never commanded us to perform any bodily function, susan, because he didn't want us to be able to chose to or not do what is healthy and necessary for us, so programmed those into us.

 

[aggie03]

Originally posted by Susan
Hey, this is for Christians only.
Aggie, a question. Where in the Bible are we given an express command to breathe?
And if you can't find it, please don't stop breathing.

I agree with what lambslove said in response to your post.  besides, Romans pretty much covers the fact that we are to do the things that are necessary to live:

"Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. "

-- Romans 12:1

This would imply that we are to be alive, which would require breathing.  Besides that, you've changed the focus with your example.  The Bible is not an instruction book for us on biological functions, the Bible is the word of God through which His will is revealed to us.  If you want to create a special day and make it a "Christian holiday", you had better have evidence for it in the Bible, otherwise you won't know if what you're doing is pleasing to God.  How can you know if it's not commanded of you?  If it's not commanded of us it's a man-made tradition which we are clearly told not to follow.

 

[ZiSunka]

I think that Christmas has gotten to be such an unhealthy holiday that it's not Christ-like or Christ-honoring anymore. Gluttony, greed, debt, materialism and drunkeness have no part in a celebration of Christ, but that's exactly what the typical Christmas holiday celebration is like. And don't forget adultery at the office Christmas party! There you have the makings of a perfect Christian holiday--not!

 

[Susan]

I'm slime OK? I don't do any of those things except occassionally gluttony. But that still makes me a creep. Guess I should give up holidays and birthdays. . .

 

[ZiSunka]

Oh susan, don't run to extremes.

 

[9-iron]

nm

 

[Wolseley]

I think this one's run its course. Closing it down.