paganism in the churches

[GraftMeIn]

hmmm very interesting posts here, I have always enjoyed the holidays and all that stuff that went along with them.
But God showed me how wrong they have become, He changed my way of thinking completely. I used to even look down on those who didn't celebrate the holidays along with the rest of us. Now I see in many ways they were better than I.

long story short about santa and the easter bunny....
We lie to the children so they'll believe that santa and the easter are real. Bible says, Thou shalt not lie.

as far as christmas trees go, I can't say for sure that we don't worship them. To worship is to Love, or admire.
do you love the way your tree looks after decorating it?
do you admire how beautiful it looks?

I don't know about everyone else, but I no longer want anything to do with these things. Even though last christmas I celebrated and decorated. Once God opened my eyes to these things, because I asked him to. I started wondering if it was my duty to share it with others. and now seeing the posts I see here I guess it is.

I'm still more curious about christmas wreaths though.
I saw a show where wreaths were placed on graves of the dead. somehow I wonder if hanging one my door might symbolize that I'm dead to Christ. since I'm not sure there's no way I'm ever hanging one again.

anyway just a little more food for thought.

 

[VOW]

To Catchup:

Do you celebrate personal birthdays in your family?

We do in my family...........but it's an excuse for everyone to get together, to see how the kids have grown, to trade recipes and remember our loved ones who have died. We have parties for other reasons, too.

If you don't want to celebrate birthdays, Christmas, Easter, Ash Wednesday, Arbor Day, Flag Day, Cinco de Mayo, GREAT.

But if *I* choose to celebrate Christmas, and I have a tree and decorations and presents and play Christmas carols, you don't have the right to tell me I'm practicing Pagan traditions which the Catholic Church, or any OTHER chruch adopted.

I let the decorations remind me of the upcoming holiday, and I look forward to sharing things with my family and friends, and spending time with them, and loving the fellowship, and remembering our loved ones who have died.

AND, my family and I go to Midnight Mass to rejoice in the Birth of our Savior.

I'm TIRED of being judged for paganism because I like chocolate bunnies and Christmas trees. I'm not practicing fertility rites or cutting out hearts per Aztec priesthood practices because I eat chocolate bunnies. I happen to like chocolate!

I also like flush toilets, electric blankets, travel by automobile, and antibiotics.

I'm just wondering WHY it's so important for people to worry so much about paganism in the Catholic Church. Why does your Christianity depend so on tearing down Catholicism?

Jumpy? You bet! Your birthday gag was a cheap shot! I've NEVER given you the kind of disrespect you showed with that little stunt.


Peace,
~VOW

 

[KC Catholic]

Originally posted by Catchup


Now I get it...Goddidit

Well...its better than saying the "Devil made me do it" .

Originally posted by Catchup
That may be your belief but I think the Catholic Church did it...to accommodate the pagans.

I think God knows what day his son was born and died.

I think it is important to him as the Heavenly Father.

And if that is what you think that is fine. It does not change anything, its not factual and its nothing more than an opinion. Like bellybuttons - we all have one!

Originally posted by Catchup
Throw out the pagan holidays!

It is never too late to start doing it right!

LOVE

Well, you are free to do as you wish, but being that I am not pagan I won't sweat those details!

Peace and enjoy your holiday-free calander!

 

[Blackhawk]

There are so many things in our world today that come from pagan roots. The holidays were at first pagan holidays that the church converted over to Christian ones. Also our calender is full of pagan influences. Thursday= thors day. I think also Odin has his day. and also we can say that our democracy itself has a lot of pagan influences. we could go on and on about them but I think it is important to look at what we think of them today. Do we even care or think about thor on Thor's day? no. it is just thursday to us.

blackhwk

 

[Catchup]

If you don't want to celebrate birthdays, Christmas, Easter, Ash Wednesday, Arbor Day, Flag Day, Cinco de Mayo, GREAT.

But if *I* choose to celebrate Christmas, and I have a tree and decorations and presents and play Christmas carols, you don't have the right to tell me I'm practicing Pagan traditions which the Catholic Church, or any OTHER chruch adopted.

Helloooooo!!! Vow: Read my post! Why are you assuming that you know what I am saying instead of reading what I write!

By the way...

HAPPY BIRTHDAY VOW !!!!!!!!!

[move] [/move]

LOVE

 

[VOW]

To Catchup:

THIS is what you said:

Throw out the pagan holidays!

It is never too late to start doing it right!

If your words are being mis-read, then maybe you need to check them out again.

And lay off the birthday stuff, okay? It's tiresome. Unless you plan to include a BIRTHDAY GIFT with your greetings. In that case, I've always wanted a Mercedes roadster.......convertible..........and red is my favorite color for a car.


Peace,
~VOW

 

[ljmandtina]

I have problems with a lot of church traditions, which is why I attend a church that has very few. We observe communion and baptism, but that's about it. Yet, we're an apostolic, New Testament, post-modern church.

My problem with tradition is that it leads to legalism. Today's churches have more Pharisees than it had two thousand years ago. Christians (and I've said this several times in other posts) have substituted rules and activities in place of a relationship with God. We are not where the Jews were in the wilderness with God ever evident. We have allowed the world system to dull our spiritual senses and distract us from communicating with God. In place of a close personal relationship with God, we think we can win His approval and acceptance by pretending to be righteous.

That's a hard indictment, but why is it that nonbelievers want nothing to do with Christ? Could it be that we're presenting a Christ of our own making; one who condemns more than He accepts?

As for Jesus' birthday....the Scriptures felt it more neccessary that we know about His death and resurrection. We are grateful for His birth, but we are saved by by what He suffered on the cross.

 

[GraftMeIn]

I think the biggest picture I'm seeing in this thread is, that indeed the churches have fallen away, and this was to take place before Christ returns. Every church has it's own seperate type of problems, That's why we need to have a personal relationship with God, when we do, he opens our eyes to what we shouldn't be doing. we might not like it, but we know he is right. my mind wants to keep going to the scripture about repairing a wall by white washing it or something to that effect, but I can't remember where it is.

 

[jukesk9]

Hey VOW, ain't Midnight Mass just the most solemn, holy Mass of the year? It is to me anyway. I know Easter's like King of the Masses but I just feel so moved at Midnight Mass.

 

[VOW]

To Jukes:

The most moving Midnight Mass I ever experienced was one where the Church was dark, and smoky with incense. The doors were open, and the entire Church was chilly. People filed in, and there was the low murmuring of voices, but it was very still, very solemn.

Very gently, the organ started playing. The music was soft, and began to get progressively louder. As the Procession made its way down the center aisle to the front of the Church, the lights began to glow brighter. By the time the Procession reached the front, the lights were on full, and the organ music was majestic and pounding!

For in the Procession, the Infant Jesus was brought forth to the Nativity scene in the front of the Church, and He was placed gently into His hay-filled manger.

Jesus is the Light of the World.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[Catchup]

Vow: That was truly beautiful!!!!
Light conquered the cold Darkness!!!!

LOVE

 

[VOW]

Thank you Catchup!

It was a beautiful service, and I got goosebumps....and they were NOT from the cold!


Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[franklin]

Originally posted by Mike K
"Jesus NEVER HAD A BIRTHDAY!!! "
He wasn't born?
That aught'a make them A.D. calendar people really mad(

He wasn't born? Then who was Mary carrying in her womb for approx 9 mos?

 

[ZiSunka]

When things and emotional experiences become more important than obeying the instructions of God, the church is in trouble.

He said not to worship Him in the same way pagans worship their gods. All paganisms in the church defile the church because God said so. He didn't say to absorb paganisms and give them new, Christian names and meanings. He said them not to do paganisms at all. If I found out that something I was doing was associated with pagan practices, I would stop doing it, without whining and making excuses.

Each person has to live with his own conscience, and if yours allows you to be pagan and Christian at the same time, fine. But don't expect every Christian to feel the same way.

 

[Shane Roach]

Heh heh. I know a lot of people that would be highly amused at me being accused of being partly pagan.

 

[Auntie]

I think some of y'all worry about things that don't matter.

The Bible says that God looks at our heart. God is more concerned with our motivations, the "why" behind our actions. Are we motivated by love for God, and love for one another? Jesus said all of the other commandments are based on these two commandments.

I have decorated my home for Christmas for many years. My motivation has always been one of love for Jesus and love for my family, and love for mankind that they might know the Lord.

 

[Susan]

AMEN! I celebrate Resurrection Day because it reminds me of the truth of the Resurrection of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
And if it reminds someone else of bunnies or commercialism or fertility goddesses, I would go out of my way to tell them the true meaning of the holiday.

 

[ZiSunka]

Originally posted by Shane Roach
Heh heh. I know a lot of people that would be highly amused at me being accused of being partly pagan.

Their amusement is of no consequence. 

You can't be "partly Christian."  You either are or you aren't.  You either have submitted your life to Christ, or you haven't.  You have either sided up with Christ and turned your back on everything else, or you haven't.

 

[Susan]

Does that mean we are to give up birthdays, Thanksgiving, Christmas, Resurrection Day, and any other holiday?
Where I come from, NOBODY considers these things as pagan. . .I won't celebrate them around you if it offends you.
However, I think this is a Romans 14 issue.

 

[ZiSunka]

I didn't say not to celebrate anything. I'm just saying that you can't be "part-Christian." It's all or nothing. You are or you aren't. You can't mix paganisms into your life and then claim to be a sold-out believer in Christ.

You wouldn't dream of putting Christ into a celebration of Buddha or Krishna and claiming that the holiday is all about Christ, would you?

You have to decide, Christ and no other god, or other gods and no Christ. There is no middle ground.

As for the Christmas tree, you may say you don't worship it because you don't pray to it, but...

Webster’s defines “worship” as “to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, admiration or devotion”

Aren’t you worshipping it?  Don’t you cherish your tree, lovingly decorate it, spend money on it ?  Don’t you devote time to making your tree beautiful, then step back to admire it.  Don’t you put it in an honored place in your home?

All that sounds like worship, according to Webster's.