Paganism and Wedding Rings

[now faith]

It's denominational dogmatism that I'll keep too, thank you very much.
After singling out slaves and exhorting them to be submissive to their masters and patiently endure unjust punishment Peter then moved on to Christian wives who had unsaved husbands (not at all the topic at hand) Wives that were seeking to win husbands to the Lord Jesus. They were going about it the wrong way and Peter corrected them in that. Which would mean equality was the norm when both were believers. Those husbands were not people who would listen to reason on hearing the gospel so the best sermon was preached by example. "That even if they obey not the word they may without a word be won" They weren't men who didn't know the gospel. Incompatabilty in religion didn't justify dissolution of marraige so subjection would be a means which God could use to win their husbands to His way.

The pious living being promoted didn't depend on outer adornment to effect the change alike before they were saved so as not to appeal to their husband's depraved nature. Kosmos - adornment - is the opposite of chaos. Her adornment was to be in keeping with her Christian status. One that was fitting and not diverse from one's character. Proceeding from the heart. So as to confront the husband not with the world but with the Savior. i.e.: Not feeding his sin nature but appeling to the conscience. Iow from the inner spiritual being. Romans 12:2

No one can serve 2 masters. The term lord referred to near relatives, father, mother etc while John uses the same Greek word to refer to the 'elect lady' in his epistle. "As long as the believing wives are doing good, they need not be afraid with any sudden terror of the account which their unbelieving husbands may exact from them"

Applying your own interpretation, based on your doctrine is dogmatism.
You must come to a conclusion based on the Context of the Scriptures.
Where you are going is just not there.
The worship of Diana ,played a part in how a Woman dressed.
This is the reason Peter and Paul both are preaching on this topic.
In some Pagan cultures the Women were dominate, they would adorn themselves to mimic their goddess.
Their lifestyle was Sexually deviant ,and their dominance could enforce the castration of Men as slaves.
Why do you think Paul was beaten so severely over the silversmiths loss of business?

Some Theologians believe this is why Paul decreed that Women keep silent
In the Churches ,and were not to have authority over the Man.

Nevertheless this Faith group is a odd place for our opinions.
I would like to share information about the Nazarene Faith with you in the future,
due to wanting to learn more about your Faith group.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Applying your own interpretation, based on your doctrine is dogmatism.
You must come to a conclusion based on the Context of the Scriptures.
Where you are going is just not there.
The worship of Diana ,played a part in how a Woman dressed.
This is the reason Peter and Paul both are preaching on this topic.
In some Pagan cultures the Women were dominate, they would adorn themselves to mimic their goddess.
Their lifestyle was Sexually deviant ,and their dominance could enforce the castration of Men as slaves.
Why do you think Paul was beaten so severely over the silversmiths loss of business?

Some Theologians believe this is why Paul decreed that Women keep silent
In the Churches ,and were not to have authority over the Man.

Nevertheless this Faith group is a odd place for our opinions.
I would like to share information about the Nazarene Faith with you in the future,
due to wanting to learn more about your Faith group.

If you don't believe that the Greek in what was being said in that passage is truth then this conversation is over.

 

[RDKirk]

The whole Gregorian calendar is built on sun worship that goes back to Nimrod.

Names of the days of the week - Wikipedia


(CLV) Jer 51:44
I will call on Bel to account in Babylon And bring forth from his mouth what he has swallowed; Not longer shall nations stream to him; Even the wall of Babylon will fall.
(CLV) Jer 51:45
Come forth from her midst, My people, And escape, each with his soul, from the heat of Yahweh's anger!

(CLV) Re 18:4
And I hear another voice out of heaven, saying, "Come out of her, My people, lest you should be joint participants in her sins, and lest you should be getting of her calamities,
(CLV) Re 18:5
for her sins were piled up to heaven, and God remembers her injuries.

Well, to be accurate, the calendar months specified for feasts and ceremonies in Leviticus are also of Babylonian origin, as is the 7-day week (a day for each of the celestial moving bodies visible to the naked eye).

 

[HARK!]

Well, to be accurate, the calendar months specified for feasts and ceremonies in Leviticus are also of Babylonian origin, as is the 7-day week (a day for each of the celestial moving bodies visible to the naked eye).

Proof?

 

[RDKirk]

Proof?

Babylonian calendar - Wikipedia

The Babylonian calendar derived from the earlier Assyrian calendar.

Assyrian calendar - Wikipedia

 

[HARK!]

Babylonian calendar - Wikipedia

The Babylonian calendar derived from the earlier Assyrian calendar.

Assyrian calendar - Wikipedia

Not good! That month of Tammuz has always bothered me. I just haven't found the time to research it out. It seems that the Hebrews picked up a lot of Pagan customs during their Babylonian captivity.

Thanks for the links.

 

[RDKirk]

Not good! That month of Tammuz has always bothered me. I just haven't found the time to research it out. It seems that the Hebrews picked up a lot of Pagan customs during their Babylonian captivity.

Thanks for the links.

Yeah, I have always been bothered by the month of Tammuz, too. Particularly because the Lord explicitly brings up "weeping for Tammuz" as one of the charges against the Jews leading to their captivity.

But I think this is a facet of being in the world without being part of the world.

For instance, the Romans did not use a 7-day week. They used a lunar month divided by the "ides" in the middle. Other days were referenced by holy days during the month, such as "let's have lunch two days before the Ides" or "my birthday is this month, one day after the festival of Venus."

Yet, we see in the scriptures that apparently Christians in the Roman empire observed the Jewish calendar and the Jewish 7-day week.

 

[now faith]

I agree that a verse in isolation is not valid instruction but when used with a second witness such as 1 Timothy 2:9 that clarifies the apparel to be modest. Both passages however, speak against the wearing of gold or jewels (jewellery).

Do you think that some of the ordeniences Paul gave ,were due to events of that day?

 

[now faith]

If you don't believe that the Greek in what was being said in that passage is truth then this conversation is over.

What Greek?
What translation?

You propose a reason that has no evidences in God's Word ,and suppose to have a higher knowlage due to the Greek translation was flawed?
What a Red Herring !

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Being dressed in a gentle Spirit?
Ok let's look.

1 Peter 3: 1. Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; 2. While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. 3. Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; 4. But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. 5. For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: 6. Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.

I see in verse 4 the logical answer ,would be a meek and quiet Spirit is pleasing to God.
Verse 5 refers back in time, and reccomends the practice continue.
The context is that a modest Woman is pleasing to God and to Her Husband as well.
There is no mention of a Church or Church authority over a Marriage.
That interpretation is simply denomational dogmatism.

It's denominational dogmatism that I'll keep too, thank you very much.
After singling out slaves and exhorting them to be submissive to their masters and patiently endure unjust punishment Peter then moved on to Christian wives who had unsaved husbands (not at all the topic at hand) Wives that were seeking to win husbands to the Lord Jesus. They were going about it the wrong way and Peter corrected them in that. Which would mean equality was the norm when both were believers. Those husbands were not people who would listen to reason on hearing the gospel so the best sermon was preached by example. "That even if they obey not the word they may without a word be won" They weren't men who didn't know the gospel. Incompatabilty in religion didn't justify dissolution of marraige so subjection would be a means which God could use to win their husbands to His way.

The pious living being promoted didn't depend on outer adornment to effect the change alike before they were saved so as not to appeal to their husband's depraved nature. Kosmos - adornment - is the opposite of chaos. Her adornment was to be in keeping with her Christian status. One that was fitting and not diverse from one's character. Proceeding from the heart. So as to confront the husband not with the world but with the Savior. i.e.: Not feeding his sin nature but appeling to the conscience. Iow from the inner spiritual being. Romans 12:2

No one can serve 2 masters. The term lord referred to near relatives, father, mother etc while John uses the same Greek word to refer to the 'elect lady' in his epistle. "As long as the believing wives are doing good, they need not be afraid with any sudden terror of the account which their unbelieving husbands may exact from them"

What Greek?
What translation?

You propose a reason that has no evidences in God's Word ,and suppose to have a higher knowlage due to the Greek translation was flawed?
What a Red Herring !

Ok let's look. You show me word for word what you disagree with.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Do you think that some of the ordeniences Paul gave ,were due to events of that day?

You can think that if you want, I'll go by what the Bible instructs for we are told that ALL scripture is profitable.
The critical method of Bible interpretation is a dangerous slippery slope that can lead a believer to reject whatever portions of scripture he doesn't like.

 

[Heber Book List]

You can think that if you want, I'll go by what the Bible instructs for we are told that ALL scripture is profitable.
The critical method of Bible interpretation is a dangerous slippery slope that can lead a believer to reject whatever portions of scripture he doesn't like.

Intrigued - which version is the correct one?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Intrigued - which version is the correct one?

Anyone that doesn't apply a post modernism philosophy to it. Myself, I have found Millers to be the best.

 

[Heber Book List]

Anyone that doesn't apply a post modernism philosophy to it. Myself, I have found Millers to be the best.

That is a very subjective view.

Link ?

 

[RDKirk]

Anyone that doesn't apply a post modernism philosophy to it. Myself, I have found Millers to be the best.

Partial to Bud, myself.

 

[ralliann]

So what is your real point? Are you defending Christmas?

The issue is this:

Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and burn their Asherah poles in the fire; cut down the idols of their gods and wipe out their names from those places. You must not worship the LORD your God in their way.

The LORD your God will cut off before you the nations you are about to invade and dispossess. But when you have driven them out and settled in their land, and after they have been destroyed before you, be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their gods, saying, "How do these nations serve their gods? We will do the same." -- Deuteronomy 12

None of that other stuff--wedding rings, embalming bodies, days of the week--are practices of worship. None of them has anything to do with either how pagans worshiped their gods or how we worship our God.

Christmas, however, does.

How is Christmas especially so? How are assemblies of worship services at Christmas , pagan worship, as opposed to other worship services?
I know some (maybe almost all) have candle lighting on Christmas, but that is not a pagan practice.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

That is a very subjective view.

Link ?

Here's the list...

I. Every word must have its proper bearing on the subject presented in the Bible. Proof; Matt. 5.18. [see also Rev. 22:18, 19. Matt. 4:4. Deut. 4:2. Prov. 30:5, 6. Rom. 15:4. I Cor. 10:11, 12].
II. All Scripture is necessary, and may be understood by a diligent application and study. Proof; 2 Tim. 3:15-17. [see also Heb. 11:6. Jer. 29:10-14; 33:3. Isa. 55:6, 7].
III. Nothing revealed in Scripture can or will be hid from those who ask in faith, not wavering. Proof; Deut. 29:29. Matt. 10:26, 27. 1 Cor. 2:10. Phil. 3:15. Isa. 45:11. Matt. 21:22. John 14:13, 14; 15:7. James 1:5, 6. 1 John 5:13-15.
IV. To understand doctrine, bring all the Scriptures together on the subject you wish to know; then let every word have its proper influence; and if you can form you theory without a contradiction, you cannot be in error. Proof; Isa. 28:7-29; 35:8. Prov. 19:27. Luke 24:27, 44, 45. Rom. 16:26. Jms. 5:19. 2 Pet. 1:19, 20. [see also John 7:16, 17].
V. Scripture must be its own expositor, since it is a rule of itself. If I depend on a teacher to expound to me, and he should guess at its meaning, or desire to have it so on account of his sectarian creed, or to be thought wise, then his guessing, desire, creed or wisdom, is my rule, and not the Bible. Proof; Ps. 19:7-11; 119:97-105. Mat. 23:8-10. 1 Cor. 2:12-16. Ezk. 34:18, 19. Luke 11:52. Matt. 2:7, 8. [see also Jer. 17:5-7. I Jn. 4:1; Jn. 7:24. I Thess. 5:19-21; II Thess. 2:1-13. Mt. 24:4,5, 23,24. Isa. 8:20].
VI. God has revealed things to come, by visions, in figures and parables; and in this way the same things are oftentimes revealed again and again, by different visions, or in different figures and parables. If you wish to understand them, you must combine them all in one. Proof; Ps. 89:19. Hos. 12:10. Hab. 2:2. Acts 2:17. 1 Cor. 10:6. Heb. 9:9, 24. Ps. 68:2. Matt. 13:13, 34. Gen. 41:1-32. Dan. 2, 7 and 8. Acts 10:9-16.
VII. Visions are always mentioned as such. 2 Cor. 12:1.
VIII. Figures always have a figurative meaning, and are used much in prophecy to represent

future things, times and events,-- such as mountains, meaning governments, Dan. 2:35, 44; beasts, meaning kingdoms, Dan. 7:8, 17; waters, meaning people, Rev. 17:1, 15; day, meaning year, etc., Ezk. 4:6. [see also Num. 14:34].
IX. Parables are used as comparisons to illustrate subjects, and must be explained in the same way as figures, by the subject and Bible. Mark 4:13.
X. Figures sometimes have two or more different significations, as day is used in a figurative

sense to represent three different periods of time, namely, first, indefinite, Eccles. 7:14; second, definite, a day for a year, Ezk. 4:6, and third a day for a thousand years, I Pet. 3:8.

The right construction will harmonize with the Bible, and make good sense; other constructions will not.
XI. If a word makes good sense as it stands, and does no violence to the simple laws of nature, it is to be understood literally; if not, figuratively. Rev. 12:1, 2; 17:3-7.
XII. To learn the meaning of a figure, trace the word through your Bible, and when you find

it explained, substitute the explanation for the word used; and, if it makes good sense, you need not look further; if not, look again.
XIII. To know whether we have the true historical event for the fulfillment of a prophecy; If you find every word of the prophecy (after the figures are understood) is literally fulfilled, then you may know that your history is the true event; but if one word lacks a fulfillment then you must look for another event, or wait its future development; for God takes care that history and prophecy shall agree, so that the true believing children of God may never be ashamed. Ps. 22:5. Isa. 45:17-19. I Pet. 2:6. Rev. 17:17. Acts 3:18.
XIV.

The most important rule of all is, that you must have faith. It must be a faith that requires a sacrifice, and if tried, would give up the dearest object on earth, the world and all its desires,--character, living, occupation, family, home, comfort, and worldly honors. If any of them should hinder our believing any part of God's word, it would show our faith to be vain. Nor can we ever believe so long as any of these motives lies lurking in our hearts. We must believe that God will never forfeit His word; and we can have confidence that He who takes notice of the sparrow's fall, and numbers the hairs of our head, will guard the translation of His own word, and throw a barrier around it, and prevent those who sincerely trust in God, and put implicit confidence in His word, from erring far from the truth. [Heb.11:6. Rom.14:23. Jms.2:26. Jn.7:16,17. Mt.7:21].

 

[Heber Book List]

Here's the list...

I. Every word must have its proper bearing on the subject presented in the Bible. Proof; Matt. 5.18. [see also Rev. 22:18, 19. Matt. 4:4. Deut. 4:2. Prov. 30:5, 6. Rom. 15:4. I Cor. 10:11, 12].
II. All Scripture is necessary, and may be understood by a diligent application and study. Proof; 2 Tim. 3:15-17. [see also Heb. 11:6. Jer. 29:10-14; 33:3. Isa. 55:6, 7].
III. Nothing revealed in Scripture can or will be hid from those who ask in faith, not wavering. Proof; Deut. 29:29. Matt. 10:26, 27. 1 Cor. 2:10. Phil. 3:15. Isa. 45:11. Matt. 21:22. John 14:13, 14; 15:7. James 1:5, 6. 1 John 5:13-15.
IV. To understand doctrine, bring all the Scriptures together on the subject you wish to know; then let every word have its proper influence; and if you can form you theory without a contradiction, you cannot be in error. Proof; Isa. 28:7-29; 35:8. Prov. 19:27. Luke 24:27, 44, 45. Rom. 16:26. Jms. 5:19. 2 Pet. 1:19, 20. [see also John 7:16, 17].
V. Scripture must be its own expositor, since it is a rule of itself. If I depend on a teacher to expound to me, and he should guess at its meaning, or desire to have it so on account of his sectarian creed, or to be thought wise, then his guessing, desire, creed or wisdom, is my rule, and not the Bible. Proof; Ps. 19:7-11; 119:97-105. Mat. 23:8-10. 1 Cor. 2:12-16. Ezk. 34:18, 19. Luke 11:52. Matt. 2:7, 8. [see also Jer. 17:5-7. I Jn. 4:1; Jn. 7:24. I Thess. 5:19-21; II Thess. 2:1-13. Mt. 24:4,5, 23,24. Isa. 8:20].
VI. God has revealed things to come, by visions, in figures and parables; and in this way the same things are oftentimes revealed again and again, by different visions, or in different figures and parables. If you wish to understand them, you must combine them all in one. Proof; Ps. 89:19. Hos. 12:10. Hab. 2:2. Acts 2:17. 1 Cor. 10:6. Heb. 9:9, 24. Ps. 68:2. Matt. 13:13, 34. Gen. 41:1-32. Dan. 2, 7 and 8. Acts 10:9-16.
VII. Visions are always mentioned as such. 2 Cor. 12:1.
VIII. Figures always have a figurative meaning, and are used much in prophecy to represent

future things, times and events,-- such as mountains, meaning governments, Dan. 2:35, 44; beasts, meaning kingdoms, Dan. 7:8, 17; waters, meaning people, Rev. 17:1, 15; day, meaning year, etc., Ezk. 4:6. [see also Num. 14:34].
IX. Parables are used as comparisons to illustrate subjects, and must be explained in the same way as figures, by the subject and Bible. Mark 4:13.
X. Figures sometimes have two or more different significations, as day is used in a figurative

sense to represent three different periods of time, namely, first, indefinite, Eccles. 7:14; second, definite, a day for a year, Ezk. 4:6, and third a day for a thousand years, I Pet. 3:8.

The right construction will harmonize with the Bible, and make good sense; other constructions will not.
XI. If a word makes good sense as it stands, and does no violence to the simple laws of nature, it is to be understood literally; if not, figuratively. Rev. 12:1, 2; 17:3-7.
XII. To learn the meaning of a figure, trace the word through your Bible, and when you find

it explained, substitute the explanation for the word used; and, if it makes good sense, you need not look further; if not, look again.
XIII. To know whether we have the true historical event for the fulfillment of a prophecy; If you find every word of the prophecy (after the figures are understood) is literally fulfilled, then you may know that your history is the true event; but if one word lacks a fulfillment then you must look for another event, or wait its future development; for God takes care that history and prophecy shall agree, so that the true believing children of God may never be ashamed. Ps. 22:5. Isa. 45:17-19. I Pet. 2:6. Rev. 17:17. Acts 3:18.
XIV.

The most important rule of all is, that you must have faith. It must be a faith that requires a sacrifice, and if tried, would give up the dearest object on earth, the world and all its desires,--character, living, occupation, family, home, comfort, and worldly honors. If any of them should hinder our believing any part of God's word, it would show our faith to be vain. Nor can we ever believe so long as any of these motives lies lurking in our hearts. We must believe that God will never forfeit His word; and we can have confidence that He who takes notice of the sparrow's fall, and numbers the hairs of our head, will guard the translation of His own word, and throw a barrier around it, and prevent those who sincerely trust in God, and put implicit confidence in His word, from erring far from the truth. [Heb.11:6. Rom.14:23. Jms.2:26. Jn.7:16,17. Mt.7:21].

Thank you, but I could not find the link to the Bible version you named, that I requested :-(

 

[tampasteve]

Partial to Bud, myself.

I'm more of a cider man myself, but I enjoy a Coors on occasion.

 

[RDKirk]

I'm more of a cider man myself, but I enjoy a Coors on occasion.

When I was in AF military training in Denver, the dormitory had Coors in the break room vending machine.