Paedobaptism

[JM]

How did you become a paedobaptist? Which arguments or scriptures did you find most convincing?

 

[Keachian]

I'm a paedobaptist?

 

[student ad x]

How did you become a paedobaptist? Which arguments or scriptures did you find most convincing?

While I'm not a card carrying paedo, my journey tord paedo-covenant theological understanding was a very long reflection on what Scripture, Acts 2:38,39 specifically, meant to the original audience.

God bless you brother.

Cam

 

[JM]

While I'm not a card carrying paedo, my journey tord paedo-covenant theological understanding was a very long reflection on what Scripture, Acts 2:38,39 specifically, meant to the original audience.

God bless you brother.

Cam

I would agree with the paedobaptist on their exegesis of Acts 2 but wouldn't assume water baptism follows.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

While 1 Cor 7:14 is not about baptism, it is an interesting, if not strange text, somewhat related as it pertains to children.

From what I understand infant baptism has to do with covenant theology, the signs and seals of faith of the old and new testaments, the mode of expressing faith, and faith as it pertains to a household or family unit.

I suspect you already know, there is no clear biblical text mandating infant baptism, it's arrived at in similar fashion as some other doctrines (like the doctrine of biblical inerrancy for example), through implication. Personally I have complete respect for disagreement on this particular point of doctrine, as I've been on both sides of it.

 

[student ad x]

While 1 Cor 7:14 is not about baptism, it is an interesting, if not strange text, somewhat related as it pertains to children.

From what I understand infant baptism has to do with covenant theology, the signs and seals of faith of the old and new testaments, the mode of expressing faith, and faith as it pertains to a household or family unit.

I suspect you already know, there is no clear biblical text mandating infant baptism, it's arrived at in similar fashion as some other doctrines (like the doctrine of biblical inerrancy for example), through implication. Personally I have complete respect for disagreement on this particular point of doctrine, as I've been on both sides of it.

Owen on covenant:

Those who, by God’s appointment, and by virtue of the law of their creation, are, and must of necessity be, included in the covenant of their parents, have the same right with them unto the privileges of that covenant, no express exception being put in against them. This right it is in the power of none to deprive them of, unless they can change the law of their creation.

Thus it is with the children of believers with respect unto the covenant of their parents, whence alone they are said to be holy, 1 Cor. vii. 14.

 

[JM]

As a Reformed Baptist I view the passages about our children and the promises of God the same as any Reformed person would minus water baptism but I'm not trying to debate this issue. Just asking.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

"The promise is for you and your children." The children of believers are made members of the visible church through the sacrament of baptism.

 

[JM]

"The promise is for you and your children." The children of believers are made members of the visible church through the sacrament of baptism.

Osage, how do you connect circumcision of the heart in Jer. 31 with the administration of water baptism to infants?

 

[Osage Bluestem]

Osage, how do you connect circumcision of the heart in Jer. 31 with the administration of water baptism to infants?

Circumcision of the heart as stated in Jeremiah didnt stop circumcision of the body. One is circumcised of the heart when he comes to faith. But the promise was still to his parents and him and to his children so on and so forth. The visible church includes believers and their children.

 

[JM]

Do you have any passages that teach baptism replaces circumcision or that water baptism is the same as circumcision of the heart? As I see it, we should define baptism by what scriptures teach about it, when looking at the covenants it is only re-enforced. It it my understanding the Reformers accepted infant baptism and created a covenantal argument for it much latter rather than a New Testament understanding of it.

Acts 2:39 often gets a lot of credit for the infant baptist position but does the verse actually teach that infants of believers should be baptized? The first half of the verse does seem to teach some speical promise to infants of believers, "For the promise is unto you, and to your children" but the second half does not, "and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." It seems to me the emphasis is "as many as the LORD our God shall call."

Any other thoughts on this subject?

 

[bsd058]

I'm not a paedo-baptist as of yet, but if one defines a part of baptism to be the intitiation of the church member into the visible church, then I can kind of see how it logically follows that their children are to be baptized, too since they are a part of the covenant as they are a part of the visible church.

However, since I see no record of positive proof from the Scriptures that would lead me to believe that children were baptized, I remain a baptist until I can know for sure that everyone that is a part of the visible church should be baptized (considering I might be drawing logical conclusions that are fallacious). If every single person who is a part of the visible church should be baptized, then I'll admit, paedo-baptism seems to make sense to me. I'm on the fence for now, though.

 

[gord44]

Edit....

 

[JM]

The issue of baptism is pretty important to me. I'm convinced by covenant theology of credobaptism. The progressive nature of revelation, the idea of a republished covenant of works at Sinai, the idea of heart circumcision replacing physical circumcision in Jer. 31, etc., IMO, points to credobaptism.

To help bolster my polemic I recently ordered two new titles:

 

[bsd058]

Those might be good reads for me! Thanks for posting them, JM!

 

[JM]

bsd, I tried to place some good resources in this thread = http://www.christianforums.com/t7735627/

And here = http://www.christianforums.com/t7697399/#post61650647

The interview I posted in the thread above with Denault really perked my interest in having another look at Baptist covenant theology which seems to have been long forgotten.

I also want to clarify my post above. I believe credobaptism is scriptural, I'm convinced by scripture alone, I find the covenantal hermeneutic to be the most consistent means to arrive at this conclusion. Covenant theology is biblical.

 

[JM]

Is it possible for 'covenant' children to be apart of the covenant of grace, receive the sign/baptism and not be blood bought members of God's people?

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Is it possible for 'covenant' children to be apart of the covenant of grace, receive the sign/baptism and not be blood bought members of God's people?

I may be off the beam, but infant baptism seemeth to me, to have more to do with the covenant of works, than grace, and do not see how an infant can receive what they do not perceive, just sayin'!

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

The way I see it, covenant children whom God regenerates and imputes faith partake in the covenant of grace, but I cannot affirm that this is the case of every child whom is made a partaker of the sacramental work of baptism (so not every baptized infant is necessarily a covenant child in the true sense). Then again, creedo baptism is no guarantee either, an unregenerated baptized adult sinner can be just as much an unregenerate adult sinner as they were before baptism. We cannot take the position that a work performed by man (the ceremony of baptism) can force the hand of God, or change the mind of God, etc. or we are not different than Rome and those in bed with her.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

Baptism is given by grace. All passages relating to one falling away from grace are regarding those who are in the visible church through baptism but never entered the invisible church through faith. So falling away from the covenant of grace is possible by failing to come to faith in Christ and repent of sins.