Overpopulation

[Ryal Kane]

Obviously your story is flawed because as a christian we would we see those attempts at rescue as our cue to get out of there. But your story insinuates that Christians are stupid.


-cw

It's an allegory. No one thinks that all Christians are like that. But sometimes some seem to be.
A good example is medical treatment, especially in children. We've had a few cases in this country of parents refusing their child medical treatment on the grounds that God will save them. They died in suffering.

The point of the story is that you can't just sit back and say God will make everything okay, whether you believe in him or not.

 

[billwald]

There is enough land in Texas to provide a 5,000 sq ft building lot for every family in the world.

The birth rate in the first world nations is below replacement. Birth rate decreases as the standard of living is raised.

 

[Allister]

Everyone seems to be talking about the space and resources needed to sustain populations and that we can keep multiplying becuase there is plenty of space and seemingly enough resources.

What are the psychological effects of overpoplulation or atleast large, crowded populations on people. does the lack of space in major cities, the pressure and stress of lots of people effect people?

If other mammels lived in conditions similar to man (say a New Yorker or someone from Sao Paulo) suffer dangerous effects? what would those effects be?

would we see high levels of rape, murder, suicide, muggings, disease, poverty, incest, beastiality etc?

 

[ScottishJohn]

Obviously your story is flawed because as a christian we would we see those attempts at rescue as our cue to get out of there. But your story insinuates that Christians are stupid.


-cw

No the story is all the more relevant because it insinuates quite correctly that Christians who behave in the manner of the man on the roof ARE stupid, very STUPID indeed! It does not however state that all Christians behave in this way. Although I know a few.

 

[Ninja Turtles]

I think the funniest thing I saw was a person calling for another baby boom in America but he wanted no immigration (code for I don't like Mexicans).

Many of the problems we see today we understand enough to know to do something about it. There are a lot of bad things that we can easily turn around, but people are too concerned with short term gain.

I don't think the God has it covered attitude works either. To me that attitude is akin to someone beaten up on the side of the road, they're bleeding, you could definitely help them out, but you choose not to. You look at the person and say, "Well it doesn't look like it needs immediate attention, I'll just move on then." You walk away ignoring the problem confident in the idea that "God has it covered." You think someone else will come and help him or he will just by a miracle help himself. But I guess that attitude also falls under "the world is ending and I'm going to Heaven so to Hell with the rest of the world."

 

[ChristianCenturion]

A "sustainable" population means everything is firing on all cylinders. No droughts, floods, hurricanes or tsunamis. We currently have people starving in the world with a population of just over 6 billion.

I think the planet is overpopulated with humans right now. And no, I don't agree that "God has it under control." At no time has any deity bothered to fix anything we've done to this planet. If we screw it up it's up to us to fix it. Since we see it coming, we have no reason to avoid doing something about it.

But nobody will. Having kids is your "god-given" right. So pop out 15 or so, no reason not to. Breed like rabbits. But since mankind has no predators, a bountiful baby harvest only means some kid someplace else will starve.

You will find that I somewhat agree with your statement that we have our share in responsibility. God gave commands in Genesis as to what man is to do as far as the Earth and the environment and then there are the rewards of the fall to top it off; but no where is it a 'cure' to stop as you so eloquently put it as 'breeding'. In fact, this goes contrary to what is in the scriptures. As a Christian, I recognize God as my Provider. I may have to toil the Earth to do my part, but ultimately all good things come from God; even my next breath will be a gift from Him.


Let's take this discussion out to its conclusions, shall we?

We know that we have resources to abolish hunger and the needs in the world now, yet there are still tens of thousands that die each day. The problem isn't resources, its selfishness and mankind not caring enough to change that. The decry that it is related to population doesn't address the issue nor provide the solution.

Let's go with a plea to 'curtail breeding'. As reason would have it, the only ones that would volunteer in carrying out that request would be those that cared and have self-control. The ones that wouldn't would be those that didn't have the self-control or didn't care. Not a very good argument for whom would be passing on their values to the next generation.

Let's go with forced 'control of breeding'. Who gets to decide how many or who gets to have children, is the human race now an animal to be thinned out by dictators? How are you going to stop those that do not comply?

No, this argument has always been one of the more ungodly, not thought out, and totally deflective to the real issue of shirked responsibilities, selfishness and indifference. If those that argued this line would do more than just talk, blame society for living, tell others what they should or shouldn’t do but not do themselves, but instead started actually giving time and charity, this would be that much smaller issue and a lot less hypocrisy.

If you think that there is a problem of over-population, then don't have kids. I'll live my own life thank you very much.

 

[Phred]

You will find that I somewhat agree with your statement that we have our share in responsibility. God gave commands in Genesis as to what man is to do as far as the Earth and the environment and then there are the rewards of the fall to top it off; but no where is it a 'cure' to stop as you so eloquently put it as 'breeding'. In fact, this goes contrary to what is in the scriptures. As a Christian, I recognize God as my Provider. I may have to toil the Earth to do my part, but ultimately all good things come from God; even my next breath will be a gift from Him.

Then I suggest you go sit in a field someplace and wait for God to provide for you. Where do you wish us to bury you when that little experiment is over? Men till the fields and men raise the livestock. Science and technology see to it that the yields are as high as they can be. There's no deity modifying crops to make them grow better, it's man doing this. Our fate is in our hands. Perhaps we've been given the tools, but we have to use them.

We know that we have resources to abolish hunger and the needs in the world now, yet there are still tens of thousands that die each day. The problem isn't resources, its selfishness and mankind not caring enough to change that. The decry that it is related to population doesn't address the issue nor provide the solution.

Yup. The issue isn't feeding all the people, it's making it profitable to do so. But starving people generally don't have the ability to buy food even if it's available. So what's the answer? Still, their deaths are really irrelevant to the issue, they just highlight a deficiency in the process. The issue is whether or not there are too many people consuming natural resources and the impact that has on our world as a whole.

Let's go with a plea to 'curtail breeding'. As reason would have it, the only ones that would volunteer in carrying out that request would be those that cared and have self-control. The ones that wouldn't would be those that didn't have the self-control or didn't care. Not a very good argument for whom would be passing on their values to the next generation.

Making people aware that the world's resources are limited would be a start. You know, instead of ignoring the issue and claiming "God has it under control." If you understand the issue then you have a responsibility to take it seriously. Tossing out platitudes like, "the population of the world could fit comfortably into Texas" is useless. Especially since they'd simply die there within a few weeks without food or other necessities. It's also futile to claim that you have to have kids so your ideals will survive. Seems there was a guy, name of Jesus... didn't have any kids at all. His ideals survive to this day.

Let's go with forced 'control of breeding'. Who gets to decide how many or who gets to have children, is the human race now an animal to be thinned out by dictators? How are you going to stop those that do not comply?

Let's not. Let's just make it clear that the world can't handle the constant growth of humanity as a species. Let's let people in on what we've found out about human sexuality. Sex is how people get pregnant. And we know how to prevent that nowadays. People can plan their families rationally and reasonably if they're taught it's important to do so.

No, this argument has always been one of the more ungodly, not thought out, and totally deflective to the real issue of shirked responsibilities, selfishness and indifference.

Really, you mean like a family having 15 kids is thought out? Stop hiding behind your belief in a deity and be responsible. The idea that if you don't use up the resource someone else will is not responsible. It's abdicating your responsibility because somebody else has abdicated theirs.

If those that argued this line would do more than just talk, blame society for living, tell others what they should or shouldn’t do but not do themselves, but instead started actually giving time and charity, this would be that much smaller issue and a lot less hypocrisy

Pot, meet the kettle. The world's resources are limited. We can't keep consuming them and expect our standard of living to remain high. Now, I know some think God has it under control. History suggests otherwise. I know some feel that the end of the world is near, so what are they conserving for? The "end of the world" has been rumored to be "near" for thousands of years now. And we're all still here, still listening to the same doomsday planners... still no doomsday.

Responsibility to yourself and your descendents means not pretending someone else will fix it after you mess it up. It means you don't mess it up in the first place.

If you think that there is a problem of over-population, then don't have kids. I'll live my own life thank you very much.

Brilliant solution. Kind, compassionate Christian values on display once again for all to see. "I got mine, you get yours." Jesus would be so proud!

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[FunkyBrother]

The over population myth comes from the peoples seeking a One World government like the U.N. There theory is if they reduce the worlds population it will be easier to control:

To quote Susan George from ‘How The Other Half Dies,’

“We all have the physical and technical resources to feed the world. World hunger and poverty is a scandal, not a scourge.” The entire world population could quite comfortably fit into an area the size of Texas, giving each family of five 6,300 feet, more than enough room for a mansion, thus leaving the rest of the world for agriculture, manufacturing and holidays."

Idealism aside, no one is about to fall off the edge.

 

[comana]

The over population myth comes from the peoples seeking a One World government like the U.N. There theory is if they reduce the worlds population it will be easier to control:

Pure Bunk!

There is a conspiracy theory for everything. They do nothing to fix the problems, they only shift the blame.

 

[FunkyBrother]

Pure Bunk!

There is a conspiracy theory for everything. They do nothing to fix the problems, they only shift the blame.

There is no-problem with over population, it's made up:

To quote Susan George from ‘How The Other Half Dies,’

“We all have the physical and technical resources to feed the world. World hunger and poverty is a scandal, not a scourge.” The entire world population could quite comfortably fit into an area the size of Texas, giving each family of five 6,300 feet, more than enough room for a mansion, thus leaving the rest of the world for agriculture, manufacturing and holidays."

Idealism aside, no one is about to fall off the edge.

 

[Eudaimonist]

As I understand it, according to the predictions of many population experts, world population will only increase for the next 50-100 years or so. The next big threat will be decreasing world population. This is the one I'm really worrying about, since this more than anything can imply extinction of the human race.

In most of the world today, there is actually a local decrease in population. It is only certain areas, e.g. India, that are actually contributing to increases in the overall population levels on the globe. (Eliminate immigration and emigration from America's changing population levels, and America doesn't look so bad for "overpopulation" at all.) But when those places modernize and improve in average wealth, people there are predicted to have fewer children, and women will produce fewer children than the replacement level. Hence, lower populations all around.

Maybe cultures will adjust to the decreases in world population and promote an ethic of valuing slightly larger families than people in modern, wealthy societies tend to have. That is my hope, anyway.

 

[comana]

There is no-problem with over population, it's made up:

To quote Susan George from ‘How The Other Half Dies,’

“We all have the physical and technical resources to feed the world. World hunger and poverty is a scandal, not a scourge.” The entire world population could quite comfortably fit into an area the size of Texas, giving each family of five 6,300 feet, more than enough room for a mansion, thus leaving the rest of the world for agriculture, manufacturing and holidays."

Idealism aside, no one is about to fall off the edge.

You quoted me out of context.

You said

The over population myth comes from the peoples seeking a One World government like the U.N. There theory is if they reduce the worlds population it will be easier to control:

So in response to your conspiracy claims above I said

Pure Bunk!

There is a conspiracy theory for everything. They do nothing to fix the problems, they only shift the blame.

Maybe you misunderstood my meaning, but I was referring to how conspiracy theories do nothing to help. They = Theory. Sorrry for being unclear.