Outer Darkness (LDS Version)

[Rescued One]

Paying for your own sins?


Rejoice, O Israel! Your friends who have been murdered for the truth's sake in the persecutions shall triumph gloriously in the celestial world, while their murderers shall welter for ages in torment, even until they shall have paid the uttermost farthing. I say this for the benefit of strangers.
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 359

Any man who humbles a daughter of Eve to rob her of her virtue, and cast her off dishonored and defiled, is her destroyer, and is responsible to God for the deed. If the refined Christian society of the nineteenth century will tolerate such a crime, God will not; but he will call the perpetrator to an account. He will be damned; in hell he will lift up his eyes, being in torment, until he has paid the uttermost farthing, and made a full atonement for his sins.
Brigham Young, JD 11:268

Every soul must stand trial and pay the uttermost farthing in one way or another. Escape from the consequences of acts of free agency is an impossibility. No one, however clever, bypasses the "due reward of our deeds." There are dark, deep corners, locked rooms, isolated spots, but no act, good or bad; no thought, ugly or beautiful ever escapes being seen or heard. Every one will make the imprint on the individual and be recorded, to be met and paid for. Hence, one only deceives himself to think he is "getting by" with anything improper.
The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p. 155

But when those here designated have suffered for their own sins, after they have paid the utmost farthing in hell, after they have suffered "the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times," they shall come forth in the second resurrection and receive their inheritance in the telestial kingdom. (D. & C. 76:103-106.) That is, the allotted period of their spiritual death shall cease; death and hell shall deliver up the dead which are in them; and all men, except the sons of perdition, shall receive their part in the kingdoms which are prepared. Thus these vessels of wrath are "the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power" after the resurrection. (D & C 76:37.)
Bruce R. McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p. 585

I believe the sons of perdition are those who will not repent after their suffering. Does anyone want to correct me?

 

[drstevej]

Any man who humbles a daughter of Eve to rob her of her virtue, and cast her off dishonored and defiled, is her destroyer, and is responsible to God for the deed. If the refined Christian society of the nineteenth century will tolerate such a crime, God will not; but he will call the perpetrator to an account. He will be damned; in hell he will lift up his eyes, being in torment, until he has paid the uttermost farthing, and made a full atonement for his sins.
Brigham Young, JD 11:268

CHAPTER XIX.

THE MYSTERIES OF POLYGAMY. - WHAT THE WIVES
COULD TELL.

Incestuous Intermarriages. - A Widow and her Daughters married to the same Man. - "Marrying my Pa." - The U. S. Government Conniving at Mormon Iniquities. - Beastly Conduct of Delegate George Q Cannon. - Polygamists legislating for Bigamists. - Mother and Daughter fighting for the same Man! - it is Wicked to Live with an Old Wife. - A Young lover Ninety Years Old! - A Bride Eleven Years Old. - Brides of Thirteen and Fourteen Years! - I receive an "Offer" when Twelve Years Old! - Old Ladies at a Discount: Young Women at a Premium. - Respect for the Silver Crown of Age. - Heber gives his Opinion. - "Why is She making such a Fuss?" - Seeing One's Husband Once a Year. - The Rascality of Orson Hyde towards his Wife. - When Rival Wives make Friends. - A Very Funny Story about an Apostle and his Wife. - Rights of the First Wife Brigham Young in a Fix - He treats an Early Wife to a Dance. - Amelia in the Shade. - The Prophet becomes Frisky. - Poor, neglected Emmeline. - How Polygamy was once Denied. - A Mistake which a French Lady Made. - Milk for Babes

The leaders of her religion teach openly that it is not right for husbands to live with their wives after they are advanced in years; and they also teach that a man is marriageable until he is a hundred years old.

This has always been a strong point with them, and in urging polygamy, in the "Reformation" times, they used to advise the young girls to choose for their husbands men of experience, who would have the power of resurrecting them, rather than a young man whose position in the church was not fixed. They carried the practice of this doctrine to the same extreme that they carried everything else.

One enthusiastic elder secured for a wife a girl of eleven years, and brides of thirteen and fourteen were often seen, especially in Southern Utah, where the excitement was most intense, and rose almost to frenzy. I was about twelve years of age, and my father had several offers for me from different church dignitaries; but however easily he might be beguiled himself into the snares set by the lecherous leaders of Mormonism and polygamy, he had no idea of making his little girl a victim; and though I was duly advised by teachers and catechists to marry into polygamy when I was a little older, I gave very little heed to the advice, and set about making my own romance, just as girls everywhere do, in my imagination.

 

[Rescued One]

"Those who are unfaithful, those who will listen to Satan, who will lend a willing ear to his blandishments and to his allurements, when they go from this state of existence, they go into a condition where they are subject to his power. They will dwell in darkness, and according to their sins their punishment will be. Some will be consigned to 'outer darkness,' where there is weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth; and they will remain in that condition until they will be visited by some servant of God to unlock the prison doors to them and to preach to them again the Gospel of salvation, through repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ…They will remain in that condition, according to the enormity of their offenses, until punishment will be meted out to them sufficiently to bring them to a condition that they will receive the Gospel of salvation. That Gospel which is taught to us will be taught to them, and they will have an opportunity of obeying it in their damned condition and through repentance will receive salvation."
George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth 1:78-79

 

[Ran77]

I believe the sons of perdition are those who will not repent after their suffering. Does anyone want to correct me?

Yes.

Here is the link and what it says from LDS.org so there is no need to offer what the LDS believe about it. This is straight from the official source: Hell


Hell

Latter-day revelations speak of hell in at least two ways. First, it is another name for spirit prison, a temporary place in the postmortal world for those who died without a knowledge of the truth or those who were disobedient in mortality. Second, it is the permanent location of Satan and his followers and the sons of perdition, who are not redeemed by the Atonement of Jesus Christ.


Additional Information

Spirit prison is a temporary state in which spirits will be taught the gospel and have the opportunity to repent and accept ordinances of salvation that are performed for them in temples (see D&C 138:30-35). Those who accept the gospel may dwell in paradise until the Resurrection. After they are resurrected and judged, they will receive the degree of glory of which they are worthy. Those who choose not to repent but who are not sons of perdition will remain in spirit prison until the end of the Millennium, when they will be freed from hell and punishment and be resurrected to a telestial glory (see D&C 76:81-85).

Those who are not redeemed by the Atonement are in outer darkness, which is the dwelling place of the devil, his angels, and the sons of perdition (see D&C 29:36-38; 76:28-33). Sons of perdition are those who receive “no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame” (D&C 76:34-35; see also D&C 76:31-33, 36-37). Such individuals will not inherit a place in any kingdom of glory; for them the conditions of hell remain (see D&C 76:38; 88:24, 32).

 

[drstevej]

Thought provoking re the afterlife...

 

[Rescued One]

Yes.

Here is the link and what it says from LDS.org so there is no need to offer what the LDS believe about it. This is straight from the official source: Hell


Hell

Latter-day revelations speak of hell in at least two ways. First, it is another name for spirit prison, a temporary place in the postmortal world for those who died without a knowledge of the truth or those who were disobedient in mortality. Second, it is the permanent location of Satan and his followers and the sons of perdition, who are not redeemed by the Atonement of Jesus Christ.


Additional Information

Spirit prison is a temporary state in which spirits will be taught the gospel and have the opportunity to repent and accept ordinances of salvation that are performed for them in temples (see D&C 138:30-35). Those who accept the gospel may dwell in paradise until the Resurrection. After they are resurrected and judged, they will receive the degree of glory of which they are worthy. Those who choose not to repent but who are not sons of perdition will remain in spirit prison until the end of the Millennium, when they will be freed from hell and punishment and be resurrected to a telestial glory (see D&C 76:81-85).

Those who are not redeemed by the Atonement are in outer darkness, which is the dwelling place of the devil, his angels, and the sons of perdition (see D&C 29:36-38; 76:28-33). Sons of perdition are those who receive “no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame” (D&C 76:34-35; see also D&C 76:31-33, 36-37). Such individuals will not inherit a place in any kingdom of glory; for them the conditions of hell remain (see D&C 76:38; 88:24, 32).

Thank you. What happens to the person who will never repent?

 

[Anto9us]

How come we don't hear nuthin bout that SALAMANDER LETTER?

 

[drstevej]

Dear Salamander,
Wanna avoid outer darkness?
Trust the Jesus of the Bible.
He's all you need.
Yours truly,
Me

 

[Der Alte]

Thought provoking re the afterlife...

Pass!

 

[bbbbbbb]

Yes.

Here is the link and what it says from LDS.org so there is no need to offer what the LDS believe about it. This is straight from the official source: Hell


Hell

Latter-day revelations speak of hell in at least two ways. First, it is another name for spirit prison, a temporary place in the postmortal world for those who died without a knowledge of the truth or those who were disobedient in mortality. Second, it is the permanent location of Satan and his followers and the sons of perdition, who are not redeemed by the Atonement of Jesus Christ.


Additional Information

Spirit prison is a temporary state in which spirits will be taught the gospel and have the opportunity to repent and accept ordinances of salvation that are performed for them in temples (see D&C 138:30-35). Those who accept the gospel may dwell in paradise until the Resurrection. After they are resurrected and judged, they will receive the degree of glory of which they are worthy. Those who choose not to repent but who are not sons of perdition will remain in spirit prison until the end of the Millennium, when they will be freed from hell and punishment and be resurrected to a telestial glory (see D&C 76:81-85).

Those who are not redeemed by the Atonement are in outer darkness, which is the dwelling place of the devil, his angels, and the sons of perdition (see D&C 29:36-38; 76:28-33). Sons of perdition are those who receive “no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame” (D&C 76:34-35; see also D&C 76:31-33, 36-37). Such individuals will not inherit a place in any kingdom of glory; for them the conditions of hell remain (see D&C 76:38; 88:24, 32).

So, what do you make of this statement by the esteemed Mr. Smith?

Rejoice, O Israel! Your friends who have been murdered for the truth's sake in the persecutions shall triumph gloriously in the celestial world, while their murderers shall welter for ages in torment, even until they shall have paid the uttermost farthing. I say this for the benefit of strangers.
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 359

 

[Ran77]

Thank you. What happens to the person who will never repent?

They wouldn't fit into the category of final Outer Darkness, if that is what you are wanting to know. (They would be assigned the Telestial Kingdom.) Read what I posted again - specifically here:

Sons of perdition are those who receive “no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it,

Those who never repent will not have received the Holy Spirt.

 

[Ran77]

So, what do you make of this statement by the esteemed Mr. Smith?

Rejoice, O Israel! Your friends who have been murdered for the truth's sake in the persecutions shall triumph gloriously in the celestial world, while their murderers shall welter for ages in torment, even until they shall have paid the uttermost farthing. I say this for the benefit of strangers.
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 359

That martyrs for the true Gospel will be rewarded in heaven.

 

[bbbbbbb]

That martyrs for the true Gospel will be rewarded in heaven.

And what of their murderers?

 

[Ran77]

And what of their murderers?

That they shall welter for ages in torment.

 

[MormonFriend]

And what of their murderers?

What gives me great satisfaction and peace of mind in seeing the unfailing justice and mercy of God, is that He has spared no effort or expense in laying all the cards out on the table (metaphoracly speaking of course) so that every person will receive an eternal compensation that is comensurate to what each individual is willing to choose by accepting and harmonizing with the laws that govern each level of glory. No one is barred from His presence, as they are given every opportunity to learn of the laws that govern His kingdom, and decide for themselves if they will abide those laws. Furthermore, as part of the expense and efforts, God Has provided a training camp, called earth life, to practice and master those laws, including the Grace of His precious Son who suffered and died for the mistakes we all make in this training camp.

Should any individules decide they are not willing to make the sacrifices and sufferings that the refinement portion of this training camp provides, they are not rejected or cast off, but because of God's infinite love, compassion and mercy, He has created kingdoms of glory that are lesser than His kingdom. They are lesser simply because there is not the fulness of laws that govern His kingdom. We are blessed according to the laws we are willing to abide by.

It should be noted also that many made their choices in the pre-earth life as to what kingdom they would pertain to. And it was necessary to come to earth and receive a mortal body, and learn to abide by such laws that govern with that body and its associated passions and desires. But, since that memory is not within us, we cannot assume anything about ourselves and others as to what we are capable of, what challenges, trials, weaknesses, strengths etc. that God has given us to help us reach our potential. The success or failure will always be based on our faith (the biblical faith that states without works is dead).

These pieces of the jigsaw puzzle are laid out that fit into the big picture of our faith. It goes without saying that they do not fit into the scheme of your faith and beliefs, and will disagree with them. So utilize them to help understand what our big picture looks like, as all the topics of discussion here are efforts to do the same. And I welcome LDS perspectives that might clarify or correct what I have tried to piece together. We all gather to learn of each other and share ... If the Spirit is with us.

 

[bbbbbbb]

What gives me great satisfaction and peace of mind in seeing the unfailing justice and mercy of God, is that He has spared no effort or expense in laying all the cards out on the table (metaphoracly speaking of course) so that every person will receive an eternal compensation that is comensurate to what each individual is willing to choose by accepting and harmonizing with the laws that govern each level of glory. No one is barred from His presence, as they are given every opportunity to learn of the laws that govern His kingdom, and decide for themselves if they will abide those laws. Furthermore, as part of the expense and efforts, God Has provided a training camp, called earth life, to practice and master those laws, including the Grace of His precious Son who suffered and died for the mistakes we all make in this training camp.

Should any individules decide they are not willing to make the sacrifices and sufferings that the refinement portion of this training camp provides, they are not rejected or cast off, but because of God's infinite love, compassion and mercy, He has created kingdoms of glory that are lesser than His kingdom. They are lesser simply because there is not the fulness of laws that govern His kingdom. We are blessed according to the laws we are willing to abide by.

It should be noted also that many made their choices in the pre-earth life as to what kingdom they would pertain to. And it was necessary to come to earth and receive a mortal body, and learn to abide by such laws that govern with that body and its associated passions and desires. But, since that memory is not within us, we cannot assume anything about ourselves and others as to what we are capable of, what challenges, trials, weaknesses, strengths etc. that God has given us to help us reach our potential. The success or failure will always be based on our faith (the biblical faith that states without works is dead).

These pieces of the jigsaw puzzle are laid out that fit into the big picture of our faith. It goes without saying that they do not fit into the scheme of your faith and beliefs, and will disagree with them. So utilize them to help understand what our big picture looks like, as all the topics of discussion here are efforts to do the same. And I welcome LDS perspectives that might clarify or correct what I have tried to piece together. We all gather to learn of each other and share ... If the Spirit is with us.

Thank you for the excellent summary of your faith. There is nothing there that I find fault with, although, of course, I do not share your views. I always appreciate your efforts to remain calm and balanced.

To summarize, those who were murderers will suffer extreme torment in hell (the outer darkness, as it were) for eternity. I assume that is what was meant in the original statement that they would be there until "the last farthing is paid". Is this correct?

 

[Ran77]

What gives me great satisfaction and peace of mind in seeing the unfailing justice and mercy of God, is that He has spared no effort or expense in laying all the cards out on the table (metaphoracly speaking of course) so that every person will receive an eternal compensation that is comensurate to what each individual is willing to choose by accepting and harmonizing with the laws that govern each level of glory. No one is barred from His presence, as they are given every opportunity to learn of the laws that govern His kingdom, and decide for themselves if they will abide those laws. Furthermore, as part of the expense and efforts, God Has provided a training camp, called earth life, to practice and master those laws, including the Grace of His precious Son who suffered and died for the mistakes we all make in this training camp.

Should any individules decide they are not willing to make the sacrifices and sufferings that the refinement portion of this training camp provides, they are not rejected or cast off, but because of God's infinite love, compassion and mercy, He has created kingdoms of glory that are lesser than His kingdom. They are lesser simply because there is not the fulness of laws that govern His kingdom. We are blessed according to the laws we are willing to abide by.

It should be noted also that many made their choices in the pre-earth life as to what kingdom they would pertain to. And it was necessary to come to earth and receive a mortal body, and learn to abide by such laws that govern with that body and its associated passions and desires. But, since that memory is not within us, we cannot assume anything about ourselves and others as to what we are capable of, what challenges, trials, weaknesses, strengths etc. that God has given us to help us reach our potential. The success or failure will always be based on our faith (the biblical faith that states without works is dead).

These pieces of the jigsaw puzzle are laid out that fit into the big picture of our faith. It goes without saying that they do not fit into the scheme of your faith and beliefs, and will disagree with them. So utilize them to help understand what our big picture looks like, as all the topics of discussion here are efforts to do the same. And I welcome LDS perspectives that might clarify or correct what I have tried to piece together. We all gather to learn of each other and share ... If the Spirit is with us.

Beautiful response. Great job.

 

[drstevej]

It should be noted also that many made their choices in the pre-earth life as to what kingdom they would pertain to.

So the death of Christ only buys the vanilla ice cream cone. Sprinkles and toppings are from pre-earth stuff?

 

[Rescued One]

29 And as I wondered, my eyes were opened, and my understanding quickened, and I perceived that the Lord went not in person among the wicked and the disobedient who had rejected the truth, to teach them;

30 But behold, from among the righteous, he organized his forces and appointed messengers, clothed with power and authority, and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness, even to all the spirits of men; and thus was the gospel preached to the dead.

31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the acceptable day of the Lord and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would repent of their sins and receive the gospel.

32 Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets...


57 I beheld that the faithful elders of this dispensation, when they depart from mortal life, continue their labors in the preaching of the gospel of repentance and redemption, through the sacrifice of the Only Begotten Son of God, among those who are in darkness and under the bondage of sin in the great world of the spirits of the dead.

58 The dead who repent will be redeemed, through obedience to the ordinances of the house of God,

59 And after they have paid the penalty of their transgressions, and are washed clean, shall receive a reward according to their works, for they are heirs of salvation.
Doctrine and Covenants 138

Should any individules decide they are not willing to make the sacrifices and sufferings that the refinement portion of this training camp provides, they are not rejected or cast off...

Thou knowest my laws concerning these things are given in my scriptures; he that sinneth and repenteth not shall be cast out.
Doctrine and Covenants 42:28

Cast out where?

 

[drstevej]

Sounds like Fabrication rather than Restoration.