Outcomes of gender inequality

[Paidiske]

So ideally you'd have a parish deacon making a weekly round. But provided the local parish is well-staffed that should be possible.

 

[All4Christ]

So ideally you'd have a parish deacon making a weekly round. But provided the local parish is well-staffed that should be possible.

Yes, either a deacon or a priest. Our priest tends to go weekly to the different hospitals and nursing homes. Layperson chaplains are supposed to make priests aware that someone is in need of the sacraments.

 

[Fantine]

Technically every family is a "domestic church," but generally they join with other Christians in a larger parish community.

Here in the South, people tend to join Baptist or non-denominational churches because of their sense of community, their programs, their youth centers, home groups, Wednesday night suppers, etc. When I talk with them, however, I find that they are much more independent thinkers than their church membership would indicate.

And so yes, I do think that many young families are choosing non-denominational churches, but I don't think it has much to do with theology. I think that non-denominational churches are much better at helping people develop their human potential.

 

[Zoii]

Word that the new self-made pastors do this is still pretty much a secret.

We have a very public case in 2016, of a pastor who raped a child after her father had pimped her out on several occasions to the Pastor. IMO the trust level for self made pastors has some work to do as well. For me personally, I will only relate to female pastors.

 

[Dave-W]

We have a very public case in 2016, of a pastor who raped a child after her father had pimped her out on several occasions to the Pastor.

They both should be locked up in general population for a very long time. In many US prisons, other prisoners make quick work of child molesters unless they are separated from the general population.

For me personally, I will only relate to female pastors.

Many classical and conservative denominations do not recognize females in any kind of leadership role.

 

[Dave-W]

And so yes, I do think that many young families are choosing non-denominational churches, but I don't think it has much to do with theology. I think that non-denominational churches are much better at helping people develop their human potential.

Non-Denoms have a serious problem with pastoral abuse. Without a denominational structure in place there is no way to remove a pastor if (or when) he goes off the rails. And that can be doctrinally, morally, or financially.

 

[Ken Behrens]

We have a very public case in 2016, of a pastor who raped a child after her father had pimped her out on several occasions to the Pastor. IMO the trust level for self made pastors has some work to do as well. For me personally, I will only relate to female pastors.

Since you are from Australia, I assume this is an Australian case? Thanks for letting us know. I have not heard of any such publicized cases in America, although I know many pastors privately, and I have heard of unpublicized ones. This certainly reflects on the difference between the American and Australian perception of non-denom churches. We have a recent case publicized locally of a teen ager killed in the act of receiving church "discipline" (non-denom). The perception was that the pastor was a renegade. I did not notice any negative perception against churches, as there is in the case of mainline child abuse.

 

[Paidiske]

It's my perception that non-denominational churches are viewed with suspicion here, on the whole. Answerable to no one and with no easily defined doctrinal and social stances, they're difficult to categorise and are perceived to be less likely to be doing things "properly" than large churches with more resources. They also form only a very tiny minority - perhaps a fraction of one per cent - of Australian Christians.

 

[WolfGate]

Non-Denoms have a serious problem with pastoral abuse. Without a denominational structure in place there is no way to remove a pastor if (or when) he goes off the rails. And that can be doctrinally, morally, or financially.

Unless it is a congregationally ruled and/or elder led church. Then there is a very clear way to remove the pastor. Problem occurs if the church is pastor ruled/led. The key factor is not that the church is non-denominational.

 

[WolfGate]

It's my perception that non-denominational churches are viewed with suspicion here, on the whole. Answerable to no one and with no easily defined doctrinal and social stances, they're difficult to categorise and are perceived to be less likely to be doing things "properly" than large churches with more resources. They also form only a very tiny minority - perhaps a fraction of one per cent - of Australian Christians.

And I don't understand this suspicion, perhaps because there are so many non-denominational churches that are not pastor led in our area. My church is part of a denomination, so I'm not coming at it with that bias - but some of the most well respected churches around here are non-denom.

 

[Paidiske]

WolfGate, it probably helps to realise that the average Australian has never had any experience of a non-denominational church, and does not know anyone who goes to one. I myself have never set foot in one, despite having explored quite a few churches and being relatively ecumenically-minded. I know precisely two people who worship in such churches, despite having a wide network of all sorts of Christians.

They're that small here. And people are suspicious of what they don't know or understand, especially when being small makes it seem like they could "get away" with a lot compared to the big churches which get a lot of attention.

 

[Zoii]

WolfGate, it probably helps to realise that the average Australian has never had any experience of a non-denominational church, and does not know anyone who goes to one. I myself have never set foot in one, despite having explored quite a few churches and being relatively ecumenically-minded. I know precisely two people who worship in such churches, despite having a wide network of all sorts of Christians.

They're that small here. And people are suspicious of what they don't know or understand, especially when being small makes it seem like they could "get away" with a lot compared to the big churches which get a lot of attention.

Australians do listen to the news though and I think are generally well informed (or maybe its just the group of friends I have). We know full well, for example, that the Hillsong founder had to face the Royal Commission for Child Sexual Abuse over the reports that his father had numerous allegations of child sexual abuse and that the founder, Mr Houston, and the church's executive team failed the victim who was molested for a number of years from the age of seven.... with the founder in particular facing allegations of conflicts of interest.

I regard all churches/denoms as having a past/present history of child sexual abuse and cover-up. To me it raises lots of internal alarms within me and why I find I will not go into a church while a service is in progress (I only go in when its all quiet and empty) and why I will only talk with a female pastor.

 

[Ken Behrens]

WolfGate, it probably helps to realise that the average Australian has never had any experience of a non-denominational church, and does not know anyone who goes to one. I myself have never set foot in one, despite having explored quite a few churches and being relatively ecumenically-minded. I know precisely two people who worship in such churches, despite having a wide network of all sorts of Christians.

They're that small here. And people are suspicious of what they don't know or understand, especially when being small makes it seem like they could "get away" with a lot compared to the big churches which get a lot of attention.

It may almost be worth a separate thread to discuss the perceptions of non-denom churches around the world. I am certain that you are correct about the situation in Australia, as certain as that I am correct that in America non-denoms have almost become the norm for people under 30, and rank socially equal with the denoms in all respects.

Let me add that many or our non-denoms, including some of the largest, have an idea that they are at the forefront of a major world revival to take place very soon. This makes the topic especially interesting and urgent to their thinking. Non-acceptance of non-denoms in larger countries such as Australia (and certainly in many smaller countries) is relevant to their beliefs about how or whether such a revival can occur.

 

[Dave-W]

Unless it is a congregationally ruled and/or elder led church. Then there is a very clear way to remove the pastor. Problem occurs if the church is pastor ruled/led.

I have only ever seen pastor-led non-denoms.
They usually love to shout "Touch ye not God's anointed!"

 

[Dave-W]

in America non-denoms have almost become the norm for people under 30, and rank socially equal with the denoms in all respects.

Here in the US I have seen a lot of denominational congregations passing themselves off as non-denoms.

My wife's sister has gone to an A/G for several decades that has in the last couple of years re-branded themselves as a "non denom." Her oldest daughter and family attend another A/G that passes itself off as a "seeker" style "non denom." My middle daughter and her family attend a "non denom" that is actually affiliated with Evangelical Free. My mom and step dad attended another congregation that (if you dug hard enough) turned out to be Church of God - Anderson IN.

 

[Dave-W]

I regard all churches/denoms as having a past/present history of child sexual abuse and cover-up.

All?? What has led you to such a sad and terrible judgement?

 

[Zoii]

The Royal Commission into child sexual abuse, and several well publicised convictions of pastors in my country

 

[Dave-W]

The Royal Commission into child sexual abuse, and several well publicised convictions of pastors in my country

Surely the number of convictions are a small minority of the overall number of clergy in any group or denomination.

We have had a HUGE number of Catholic priests that have been charged with sex abuse. We have also had football coaches and track coaches and trainers charged. But I believe the vast majority in each field are good and honest men and women; and NOT abusers.
I cannot paint them all with that brush.

 

[Paidiske]

Dave, I think what Zoii's saying is that there is no church where abuse and cover up has not happened. And while that might not be true at the individual congregation level, I think it's certainly true at an institutional level.

This is fact. It is history. We need to look at it square in the face if we're going to be able to deal with how it happened and work to minimise its chances of happening again.

 

[Zoii]

Many classical and conservative denominations do not recognize females in any kind of leadership role.

Dave I meant to reply to this before. To me I do not care if classical or conservative denominations recognize females in leadership. At a personal level that merely sends me a danger signal to not go near them. The point I was making is that I recognize female pastors and value them. Within a church female pastors are who I seek out and a church who denies this level of service is doing a disservice to a very large section of their Congregation; but more importantly are limiting the pool of incredible spiritual leaders.