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Our Creator's Dietary Laws

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics' started by gadar perets, Nov 18, 2017.

  1. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    One of the most common arguments used by Christians is that they do not have to keep the dietary laws because they were not given to Gentiles, but only to Jews.

    The distinction between clean and unclean animals has existed at least as far back as Noah’s time (Genesis 7:2). Noah and his family were Gentiles. The unclean animals on the ark could not be eaten or sacrificed by them. That is why YHWH told Noah to bring food for him and the animals (Genesis 6:21). Had Noah eaten or sacrificed one of the two pigs on the ark, the species would have become extinct unless piglets were born on the ark. YHWH, however, provided seven pairs of clean animals in preparation for Noah and his family to eat meat and offer sacrifices after leaving the ark.

    Several NT verses/passages are used teach against obedience to the dietary laws. I'm sure we will get into those eventually.

    When Henry Ford invented the automobile, he included an owner's manual so the owner would know what type of fluids the car needed to operate efficiently. Our Creator knows exactly what our bodies need for fuel. He knows what will harm us and what will help us. He gave us a manual (the Bible) informing us as such. Throw away that portion of the owners manual and put in fuel that is harmful such as swine's flesh, shellfish, etc, and our bodies will be negatively affected. However, health factors are only one aspect of why we should obey those laws. Another is the FACT that YHWH clearly said unclean animal flesh would defile us (Leviticus 11:44) and that He considers them to be "abominations" (something that, when eaten, utterly DISGUSTS Him) (Leviticus 11:10-13, etc.). He wants His people "to make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten."(Leviticus 11:47).

    It is interesting that failure to obey one of YHWH's dietary laws caused the fall of mankind in the first place. Many have not learned from Adam and Eve's mistake of eating what was forbidden.
     
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  2. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

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    So you are arguing that all the OT laws should be obeyed, not just the dietary laws?

    God wanted the Jews to be a holy people, who showed just how wonderfull life would be if we followed Gods laws.
    God wanted the nations of the world to come and ask about the loving God who gave such wonderful rules that resulted in a people being blessed.

    Sin being what it is in us, this did not work.

    The new covernant only requires that we love God/Jesus and that we love others in the same self sacrificing way.
     
  3. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    I have not mentioned any other laws. There are laws we cannot obey such as all laws related to an earthly temple. There are other laws that men cannot obey since they are not women and vice versa. The dietary laws are ones we can obey and must obey if we do not want to defile our bodily temple in which the Holy Spirit dwells.

    The fault was not with the law, but with the people (Hebrews 8:8). So YHWH changed the hearts and minds of people so they would obey His laws by writing those laws (Torah) in their hearts and minds (Jeremiah 31:33). He empowered them to obey through the indwelling Holy Spirit under the New Covenant (Ezekiel 36:26-27). We can choose to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit as it directs us to obey YHWH's laws or we can grieve it by fighting against obedience.

    We show our love for God by obeying His commandments (1 John 5:3). We show our love for Yeshua by obeying his commandments (John 14:15). We show our love for our neighbors by keeping YHWH's commandments. If we steal from our neighbor or commit adultery with his/her spouse or feed them the unclean flesh of pigs, we show that we do not love our neighbor as we should. Yeshua died so that when we fail to love through sin, we can be forgiven through his shed blood. That forgiveness does not give us liberty to break the law again and sin again. Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4). Obey the law, including the dietary laws, and you will not sin. That is how Yeshua lived a sinless life (by obeying all of YHWH's laws). He is our ultimate example.
     
  4. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

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    No, but in wanting only part of the OT laws to be kept you are being inconsitent. If Gods laws are important then we should obey all of them and not just those we agree with.
     
  5. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    Not even Yeshua obeyed all the laws, but he did obey all the laws that applied to him. He certainly did not need to obey laws given to women concerning giving birth. Was he being "inconsistent" because he did not obey those laws?
     
  6. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    Okay, so which laws apply to uncircumcised Gentiles? And which do not?

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  7. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    Do you mean Gentile believers who are uncircumcised in the flesh, but have circumcised hearts? If so and in brief, all of Torah except temple related commands including sacrifices and offerings and commands that can only apply to the nation as a whole (for example, Deuteronomy 12:2). Certainly all Ten Commandments MUST be kept as written as well as the two greatest commandments, dietary laws, Feast Days, laws concerning sexual relations, etc.

    As far as the dietary laws are concerned, Yeshua's death and resurrection did nothing to change the nature or physiology of animals. A pig is just as unclean now as it was in Moses' day. The pig was not created to be eaten. We must not eat it today. Nor did his death and resurrection change the way his Father YHWH feels about us eating unclean flesh. It is just as abominable to Him now as it was in Moses' day.
     
  8. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    Are the sacrifices and offerings not applicable because there's no Temple--in other words, will it become necessary for Gentile Christians to attend Temple and bring offerings if one were to ever be rebuilt?

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  9. Nihilist Virus

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    So... should a rape victim marry her rapist? Slavery is OK now?

    Also... the OP believes that Noah's Flood is literal...?
     
  10. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    Sacrifices will take place during the millennium, but I don't think they will be made by believers. Yeshua is our sacrifice.
     
  11. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    You will need to quote the verses in question.

    Yes, Noah's flood was literal.
     
  12. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    Why wouldn't we make sacrifices if there's a temple? Doesn't Torah command them? And doesn't the Lord say "Not one jot or tittle" of the Law will be abolished?

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  13. Nihilist Virus

    Nihilist Virus Infectious idea

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    I think you already are aware of them. But here you go:

    Deuteronomy 22:28-29
    Leviticus 25:44-46
     
  14. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    Believer already made their sacrifice for sin by receiving Yeshua as their Savior and atonement. We have embraced the "better sacrifice" of the New Covenant. If we sin willfully by renouncing Yeshua, there remains no more sacrifice for our sins. Therefore, as long as we have Yeshua, we have a sacrifice to offer YHWH.

    Animal sacrifices were shadows that were fulfilled by Yeshua. Abstaining from unclean flesh was not a shadow. It is a simple command that will continue to exist and will be a factor when the fiery day of judgment is poured out by YHWH (Isaiah 66:15-18). How can the recipients of YHWH's wrath in that passage be judged for eating swine's flesh if all believers are now allowed to eat such abominations?
     
  15. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    Deu 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
    Deu 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
    That passage is founded upon the following passage which is the original command.

    Exo 22:16 And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife.
    Exo 22:17 If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.
    In your original post, you generalized the command to include all women who are raped. These passages refer to a damsel/maid still under her father's covering. Her father has the final say as to whether or not the man can marry her. A loving father would certainly take his daughters wishes into account, so marrying the woman you raped was contingent upon the father's and most likely the daughter's choice.

    Lev 25:44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.
    Lev 25:45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
    Lev 25:46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.
    The "heathen that are round about you" referred to the inhabitants of the land of Canaan (Leviticus 25:38) who were supposed to have been put to death for all their atrocities, but weren't. Allowing them to be bought as slaves rather than having them put to death was a mercy to them. This law can no longer be observed since no one knows who are truly Canaanites today.
     
  16. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    So the sacrifices were shadows fulfilled by Jesus, but not "food and drink or of observing festivals, new moons, or sabbaths."?

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  17. Nihilist Virus

    Nihilist Virus Infectious idea

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    Thanks. The absurdity of your response speaks for itself, so I think my work is done here. Carry on.
     
  18. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    The items mentioned in Colossians 2:16 were not fulfilled by Yeshua. How has he fulfilled Yom Teruah or Sukkot? Yes, he fulfilled the Passover and Atonement sacrifices, but there is more to those days than just the sacrifices. Has the anti-typical Jubilee Trumpet been blown on Yom Kippurim yet? Has the latter rain been poured out yet as was the former rain on Shavuot in Acts 2?
     
  19. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    So your position then is that Paul was wrong?

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  20. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    ?? No, my position is that the Christian interpretation of Paul is wrong. Paul himself said they were unfulfilled shadows in his day. He said they "ARE shadows of things to come (in Paul's future)". He did not say they "were shadows of things that were".
     
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