Our 2nd Amendment right to bear arms keeps our government from becoming Totalitarian.

[pat34lee]

You shouldn't argue when you lack any facts to support your position. The 2nd amendment is safe and sound and that has been made clear in case after case which the Supreme Court has heard. Stop loving in fear because of what some lying right wing organization says but cannot provide any evidence of. They want you scared so they can manipulate you.

Nothing in the Constitution is safe as long as the
government can bypass or ignore it's laws. We
have no guaranteed freedoms today because
the government can take them away at any time
and for any reason. It happens all the time.

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

'nuff said!

This is very interesting.

How do the other Western countries manage to not become totalitarian?

They don't seem to need everyone carrying gun to keep things civil. Why do you think this is?

And in actual fact, the citizens of many countries have more freedom than Americans. Why do you think this is?

 

[Yarddog]

Nothing in the Constitution is safe as long as the
government can bypass or ignore it's laws. We
have no guaranteed freedoms today because
the government can take them away at any time
and for any reason. It happens all the time.

The Constitution is strong. What isn't strong is the people who lack understanding of what their rights under actually encompass.

The 2nd amendment guarantees the right to bear arms. What it doesn't guarantee is the individual's right to own any weapon they choose.

 

[Phil 1:21]

The Constitution is strong. What isn't strong is the people who lack understanding of what their rights under actually encompass.

The 2nd amendment guarantees the right to bear arms. What it doesn't guarantee is the individual's right to own any weapon they choose.

Within reason, yes. Chicago tried to make that case to deprive residents the right to own a handgun. Chicago lost.

 

[Yarddog]

Within reason, yes. Chicago tried to make that case to deprive residents the right to own a handgun. Chicago lost.

Yes. In case after case SCOTUS has upheld the people's right to own weapons.

 

[justbyfaith]

This is very interesting.

How do the other Western countries manage to not become totalitarian?

They don't seem to need everyone carrying gun to keep things civil. Why do you think this is?

And in actual fact, the citizens of many countries have more freedom than Americans. Why do you think this is?

Because they have more money or prestige? The right to bear arms is intended to preserve freedom of religion, not necessarily to make things more civil.

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

Because they have more money or prestige?

What does this have to do with fact that many countries without so many guns as USA are not totalitarian?

 

[justbyfaith]

You shouldn't argue when you lack any facts to support your position. The 2nd amendment is safe and sound and that has been made clear in case after case which the Supreme Court has heard. Stop loving in fear because of what some lying right wing organization says but cannot provide any evidence of. They want you scared so they can manipulate you.

I'm saying there will be facts to support my position, if certain people have their way...but by then it will be too late!

 

[justbyfaith]

What does this have to do with fact that many countries without so many guns as USA are not totalitarian?

They ARE totalitarian...but you just don't know it.

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

They ARE totalitarian...but you just don't know it.

They are totalitarian, but they have more freedom?

The Human Freedom Index 2017 | Fraser Institute

The top 10 jurisdictions in order were Switzerland, Hong Kong, New Zealand, Ireland, Australia, Finland, Norway, Denmark, and, tied at 9th place, the Netherlands, and the United Kingdom. Selected countries rank as follows: Canada (11), Sweden (13), Germany (16), the United States (17),

 

[justbyfaith]

What is considered freedom varies from person to person. You may consider yourself to have great freedom because you can travel to another country. But if you don't have the right to worship the Lord according to the dictates of your conscience, you are less free than someone in the United States who does have this right but is even locked up in prison.

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

What is considered freedom varies from person to person. You may consider yourself to have great freedom because you can travel to another country. But if you don't have the right to worship the Lord according to the dictates of your conscience, you are less free than someone in the United States who does have this right but is even locked up in prison.

Your statement is:

Our 2nd Amendment right to bear arms keeps our government from becoming Totalitarian.

I demonstrated how countries without similar right to bear arms are not totalitarian. I even used reputable source to show many have more freedom than the USA.

What you replied with above has nothing to do with this. Could you please discuss the topic? Thank you.

 

[tulc]

(snip) The right to bear arms is intended to preserve freedom of religion, (snip)

hmmmm...here's the second amendment:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

could you point out the part that talks about it being there to "preserve freedom of religion"?
tulc(thanks in advance)

 

[Yarddog]

I'm saying there will be facts to support my position, if certain people have their way...but by then it will be too late!

If your so called facts are something which has only a possibility of happening at some future date, then they are not facts.

 

[justbyfaith]

If your so called facts are something which has only a possibility of happening at some future date, then they are not facts.

not YET...

 

[justbyfaith]

hmmmm...here's the second amendment:

could you point out the part that talks about it being there to "preserve freedom of religion"?
tulc(thanks in advance)

That it is necessary to the security of a free state...that word "free" would be referring to freedom of religion as identified in the amendment immediately before it.

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

not YET...

Then it is not a "fact". What you have is called a guess.

 

[Choir Loft]

A citizen has the right to protect himself from such things as illegal search and seizure.

Rights as defined by the Bill of Rights no longer exist.

Any discussion of citizen's rights is academic and not based upon reality. Government authorities NOW have legal justification to commit any intrusion or seizure of an individual's property or person with or without judicial oversight or approval. The United States is now a fascist police state. WAKE UP.

SUSPENSION OF CONSTITUTIONAL BILL OF RIGHTS BY LAW

The following text is a transcription of the first ten amendments to the Constitution in their original form. These amendments were ratified on December 15, 1791 and compose what was historically known as the "Bill of Rights." They were deratified by several acts of congress beginning on October 26, 2001, about a month after 911 attacks. The non-partisan trend continues to this day.

The following is a VERY limited review of the annulment of citizens rights previously guaranteed by constitutional law.

AMENDMENT I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

* Annuled by Federal restrictions against public prayer & IRS 501.c.3. Peaceful assembly has been disallowed or limited by local authorities to an extent that such influence is negligible. Private litigation against the US government is restricted by legal precedent rather than overt law.

Source list of legal precedent is too lengthy to publish here.

AMENDMENT II
A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

* Annulled by transfer of National Guard command authority from state governors to the Pentagon. 1973 DOD total force policy and Title 10 U.S.C. 12301(a)

AMENDMENT III
No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

* Annulled by Federal and state laws of Eminent Domain. The government has the right to seize property for any reason at any time.

AMENDMENT IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

* Annulled by the Aviation and Transportation Security Act of 2001, which created the TSA.

The Transportation Security Administration has full authority to search and seize persons and property without warrant or cause.

AMENDMENT V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

* Annulled by the Patriot Act of Oct. 2001, Homeland Security Act of 2002 and the National Defense Authorization Act of 2012.

AMENDMENT VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

* Annulled by the Patriot Act of Oct. 2001, Homeland Security Act of 2002 and the National Defense Authorization Act of 2012.

AMENDMENT VII
In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

* Annulled by the Homeland Security Act of 2002 and the National Defense Authorization Act of 2012.

AMENDMENT VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

* Annulled by the Patriot Act of 2001, Homeland Security Act of 2002 and the National Defense Authorization Act of 2012.

AMENDMENT IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

* Annulled by the Patriot Act of Oct. 2001, the Homeland Security Act of 2002 and The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act of 2011 (Obama Care).

AMENDMENT X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

* Usurped by the Federal Government at the expense of State's rights and citizens rights beginning in 1865.

OTHER:
1947 National Security Act - Grants power to the president to lead America into war without congressional prior approval.

2011 Congressional oversight required by 1973 War Powers Act violated by POTUS Bush, Obama & Trump too many times to list here.

Presidential precedent annuls Article 1 section 8 which states that war can be declared only by an act of congress.

* * * R. I. P. * * *
the AMERICAN REPUBLIC
- Here lies Liberty -
Born in the spring, died in the fall.
Stabbed in the back, forsaken by all.

Anyone who thinks the American people are secure in their constitutional rights is doing themselves, their families and their country a disservice. The truth is that all rights to privacy and to hold property are no longer guaranteed by law. Privacy and property rights are delegated to private individuals only at the discretion of government and corporate interest. There is no longer any basis in law for citizen rights.

Local police help? Guess again.

The Law Enforcement Officer is under no obligation to protect a citizen.
In Warren v. District of Columbia [1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981),
the federal court stated that a LEO has no duty to protect a citizen.

We have none but God to protect us now.
May He prove to be a fortress for all who turn to Him.

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[tulc]

That it is necessary to the security of a free state...that word "free" would be referring to freedom of religion as identified in the amendment immediately before it.

...or it doesn't, which is also a possibility.
tulc(just thought that should be pointed out)

 

[justbyfaith]

re #58: We have the constitution in our hearts even if the federal government no longer holds it to be a reality. As long as we have our 2nd amendment rights we can enforce the constitution against those who would take away our rights on a practical level. But I agree with you that things have gotten bad.