OT vs NT -- Why the striking contrasts?

[ewq1938]

Those were not His exact words you know...

Yes but it is what he was telling them so "exact words" isn't a valid point to make.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Paul was arresting Christians and voting for their execution. God asked him to reconsider his career path. Paul became an organizer of churches.

Some Vietnam War veterans returned to Vietnam to help clear mine fields.

The tax collector Zachaeus offered to repay those he had cheated by collecting more than he was authorized to collect (Luke 19).

A sinner must repent to realize God’s grace.

I agree.

 

[fwGod]

There's a difference between allowing us to do things incorrectly to show that they don't work, and condoning it. Ecclesiastes condones hate.

Eccles.3:8
"A time to love and a time to hate". A time when it becomes necessary to suspend the commandment to love your neighbor as yourself. Because of "a time for war". And, when it's not war, then it's "a time for peace".

If there wasn't allowed at all a time for God's people to go to war against those who have no qualms to make war, then God's people would have been wiped out long ago.

..the Old Testament, which has imprecatory psalms..

Those curses were directly or indirectly based on (deut.27:26) the curses that God said would happen to the Jews if they didn't obey His commandments.
Keeping the commandments was the insurance umbrella that protected them (Ps.91:1,4.9; Lk.13:34).

But if they stepped out from under that protection then they'd be just as subject to the curses loosed in the earth at Adam's disobedience (Gen.3:16-19; Deut.28:15-68). They'd be just as vulnerable as the wicked and unbelieving nations in the world.

That was under the old testament. The laws were documents between God and fallible people. God didn't like the old covenant (Heb.8:7-9) but it was the best as could be possible before God sent His Beloved Son Jesus Christ.

With the new testament. (Heb.8:10-12) It's between God and Jesus, the righteous. We accept Jesus as our Redeemer, and Savior and we become family (Eph.3:15). We are the children of God. Loved as much as Jesus is loved by the Father (1Jn.3:1; Jn.17:23).

The hate is gone. God doesn't hate anybody (Jn.3:16). Because Jesus took our place and paid the full penalty for our sins. The sins of the whole world. God isn't mad at the world (Isa.54:9).
God loves all, because Jesus by His sacrifice on the cross on behalf of the whole world, bore all the punishments, which cancelled our punishments. And Jesus through the cross defeated the tempter, liar, stealer, and killer.. the Devil (Col.2:13-15; Heb.2:14)

However, the devil is an outlaw. He uses lies and deception to blind those who don't yet believe concerning the better covenant in Christ Jesus (2Cor.4:3-4). And the curses are still in the world. But God is working by degrees (cast out of God's heaven; cast out of the high places; cast into hell) so tightening the noose more and more around the devil's neck until he's finally finished once and for all (Jd.13) cast to outer darkness.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There's a difference between allowing us to do things incorrectly to show that they don't work, and condoning it. Ecclesiastes condones hate.

We can hate the sin, but not the sinner.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I see the things like the battles in the OT as being compared to the spiritual battles we fight in overcoming grievous sin in this life. In the OT, men of GOD fought against impossible odds and won. In the NT, we must do the same but it is a spiritual battle, which is only possible for those who first have God's grace.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

God rewarded and punished in great ways in the OT (that was seen by physical eyes). This was to show that GOD is a rewarder to those who follow Him, and He is a punisher to those do not follow Him. In the NT, believers are called to a higher road of love and faith. They put their treasures in Heaven, and not here upon this Earth. Sure, the ways of the NT are different than the OT, but they contrast each other in a way that is complementary - IMO.

 

[Neogaia777]

Sure, the ways of the NT are different than the OT, but they contrast each other in a way that is complementary - IMO.

How so...? How are they complimentary or how do they compliment one another...?

And It's not that I don't believe you, or think you are wrong here, cause I don't think that at all, it's just that, I'm wondering how you or others like you think they are complimentary is all...?

How do you personally "reconcile" the "almost two totally different ideologies or philosophies" IOW's...?

Just for a discussion is all, not that I think you are wrong or are in error here, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

How so...? How are they complimentary or how do they compliment one another...?

And It's not that I don't believe you, or think you are wrong here, cause I don't think that at all, it's just that, I'm wondering how you or others like you think they are complimentary is all...?

How do you personally "reconcile" the "almost two totally different ideologies or philosophies" IOW's...?

Just for a discussion is all, not that I think you are wrong or are in error here, etc...

God Bless!

I believe peace was made between God and man or man and God...

Whereas peace with man did not exist between God and man, or man and God before (in the OT) (after the fall) (and before Christ), etc...

I believe Jesus created that peace, and that is how the two different ideologies or philosophies were reconciled or resolved...

So that they now compliment one another, etc...

And, But/or/however, while I am pretty sure about that much, I don't know exactly how the two seemingly completely different ideologies/philosophies were exactly and completely resolved or reconciled completely, without one or more them, (God in the OT, and Jesus Christ in the NT), having to have (one or each or both of them) having to have changed somehow yet completely...?

Or the standard having to have changed, which I do not believe, etc... So without one or more of them having to have changed in their ways, or having changed "the ways", etc, (but not the standard, etc) I don't know how it was done or accomplished completely or successfully yet for sure...?

Anyone care to shed some more light on this subject maybe...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I believe peace was made between God and man or man and God...

Whereas peace with man did not exist between God and man, or man and God before (in the OT) (after the fall) (and before Christ), etc...

I believe Jesus created that peace, and that is how the two different ideologies or philosophies were reconciled or resolved...

So that they now compliment one another, etc...

And, But/or/however, while I am pretty sure about that much, I don't know exactly how the two seemingly completely different ideologies/philosophies were exactly and completely resolved or reconciled completely, without one or more them, (God in the OT, and Jesus Christ in the NT), having to have (one or each or both of them) having to have changed somehow yet completely...?

Or the standard having to have changed, which I do not believe, etc... So without one or more of them having to have changed in their ways, or having changed "the ways", etc, (but not the standard, etc) I don't know how it was done or accomplished completely or successfully yet for sure...?

Anyone care to shed some more light on this subject maybe...?

God Bless!

I believe no one ever has any kind of true peace, either in this life, or with God, apart from or separate from Christ ever, and that much I feel I am absolutely sure about, etc, and can "stand on", etc...

But as for some of the exact, full "details", I'm not quite so sure of sometimes...? or all of the exact details of the all the "how's", etc, IOW's, etc...? The "why's" (and what's) are pretty obvious and pretty clear to me, but all the specific "how's", not as much...?

Specifically how the two seemingly totally different ideologies or philosophies were completely and fully and totally reconciled, or fully resolved, completely, etc...?

Anyone care to comment...?

God Bless!

 

[GraceBro]

I plan to gather more examples. But, one that really stands out to me:

In the Sermon on the Mount, Christ taught us to love our enemies. I listened to a sermon by David Guzik, and if he's correct, this love goes beyond emotion (e.g. care for their soul) and extends to even assisting (though not assisting in evil acts) not just personal enemies, but enemies of society. So, for example, we might assist a serial killer in his walk through life.

This seems very contrary to the Old Testament, which has imprecatory psalms and in which Ecclesiastes tells us that there's a time for hate.

I'm curious about this specifically, but I'm also curious generally: why does the NT seem so different from the OT, at least when it comes to ethics?

In short, the Old Covenant dealt with issues of the flesh and the New Covenant deals with issues of the spirit. That's why the Bible says in John 1:17, "For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." The Sermon on the Mount is not Jesus telling Christians how to live so they can be blessed. The Sermon on the Mount is Jesus telling people how to be blessed by becoming Christians. The law of Moses that Jesus amplified was to show a person's need for God's grace and mercy because we cannot live up to its demands. The purpose of the law is to lead a person to faith in Jesus Christ ( Galatians 3:24-25). Once we are saved we live by responding to the indwelling Holy Spirit leading us in love as we go through life. That is why in Romans 13:10 we read that love is the fulfillment of the law. The law has no place in the life of a Christian unless we are using it to show an unbeliever their sinfulness and need for the life of God restored to them through faith in Jesus Christ. 1 Timothy 1:8-10 says that law is for the lost. Galatians 3:11 clearly states that Christian live faith. Hope this helps.

 

[Neogaia777]

in short, the old Covenant dealt with issues of the flesh and the New Covenant deals with issues of the spirit. That's why the Bible says in John 1:17, "For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." The Sermon on the Mount is not Jesus telling Christians how they can be blessed. The Sermon on the Mount is Jesus telling people how to be blessed by becoming Christians. The law of Moses that Jesus amplified was to show a person's need for grace and mercy because we cannot live up to its demands. The purpose of the law is to lead a person to faith in Jesus Christ. Once we are saved we live by responding to the indwelling Holy Spirit leading us in love as we go through life. That is why in Romans 13:10 we read that love is the fulfillment of the law. The law has no place in the life of a Christian unless we are using it to show an unbeliever their sinfulness and need for the life of God restored to them through faith in Jesus Christ. 1 Timothy 1:8-10 says that law is for the lost. Galatians 3:11 clearly states that Christian live faith.

That is a very good post, and all very, very true, and I'd like to say "very good job", but, do you have a take on how the two different ideologies or philosophies were reconciled fully and completely maybe...?

Into one way or code or whatever...?

God Bless!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

In short, the Old Covenant dealt with issues of the flesh and the New Covenant deals with issues of the spirit. That's why the Bible says in John 1:17, "For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." The Sermon on the Mount is not Jesus telling Christians how to live so they can be blessed. The Sermon on the Mount is Jesus telling people how to be blessed by becoming Christians. The law of Moses that Jesus amplified was to show a person's need for God's grace and mercy because we cannot live up to its demands. The purpose of the law is to lead a person to faith in Jesus Christ ( Galatians 3:24-25). Once we are saved we live by responding to the indwelling Holy Spirit leading us in love as we go through life. That is why in Romans 13:10 we read that love is the fulfillment of the law. The law has no place in the life of a Christian unless we are using it to show an unbeliever their sinfulness and need for the life of God restored to them through faith in Jesus Christ. 1 Timothy 1:8-10 says that law is for the lost. Galatians 3:11 clearly states that Christian live faith. Hope this helps.

I disagree. Jesus did not teach Old Covenant primarily but He taught New Covenant. He was making changes to the OT Law during His earthly ministry before the New Covenant went into effect officially with His death (click on the following spoiler button to check the verses).

Spoiler

Jesus clearly was making changes to the Law (even before the cross):
(Which means He was not teaching primarily Old Covenant, but New Covenant):

The Old Way says:
"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth"
(Matthew 5:38 cf. Exodus 21:23-25).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:39).


The Old Way says:
"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment" (Matthew 5:21 cf. Numbers 35:30-32).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." (Matthew 5:22).


The Old Way says:
"Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:" (Matthew 5:34 cf. Numbers 30:1-2, Deuteronomy 23:21).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
34 "But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil." (Matthew 5:34-37).


The Old Way says:
"And of thy mercy cut off mine enemies, and destroy all them that afflict my soul: for I am thy servant." (Psalms 143:12).

"And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the LORD: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent." (Joshua 6:17).

"And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword." (Joshua 6:21).

16 "But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee" (Deuteronomy 20:16-17).

"They did not destroy the nations, concerning whom the LORD commanded them" (Psalms 106:34).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" (Matthew 5:44).

Note: Yes, I am aware that the Old Way (Old Testament) also teaches to love one's enemies (Exodus 23:4-5) (Proverbs 25:21), but this was in context to their own Israelite people, and not pagan nations. Pagan nations were to be destroyed when God commanded the Israelites to destroy them. But Jesus taught a radically different way. Love your enemies, and do good to them that hate you, and to pray for those who persecute you.


The Old Way says:
20 "But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the harlot in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel." (Deuteronomy 22:20-22).

4 "They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?" (John 8:4-5).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. " (John 8:7).


Even after the cross, there were changes being made:

The Old Covenant says this about circumcision:
"And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." (Genesis 17:14).

Yet, the New Covenant says this about circumcision:
"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing."
(Galatians 5:2).


The Old Covenant says this about the Sabbath:
32 "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses." (Numbers 15:32-36).

Yet, the New Covenant says this about the Sabbath:
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" (Colossians 2:16).

So it appears things have changed.

This makes sense because again, Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.

"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."
(Hebrews 7:12).

“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
(John 1:17).

Jesus said,
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." (Matthew 5:17).

Jesus came not to abolish the Law (in the sense of destroying all forms of Law), but Jesus came to fulfill the Law (i.e. to nail to the cross those ordinances that were against us [like the Old Covenant ceremonial laws], and Jesus came to give us a more fulfilled and perfect way of obeying God via the commands that come directly from Him and His followers). For Jesus offered a more perfect way of loving God, and loving our neighbor (Which of course is only possible via if we are first saved by God's grace through faith).

Yes, the Old Law has ended (i.e. the 613 laws within the Law of Moses is no more as a binding contract); But to say that God's laws (in general today or New Testament Law) have no place in the life of a Christian is simply not true. While believers are guided by the Spirit to love, this is in harmony with obeying God's commands or laws in the New Covenant (or New Testament). There are approximately 450 explicit commands in the New Testament. These are all there by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. You cannot establish righteous living or love without God's laws or without upholding a standard of morality or a code of conduct. For Paul says that loving your neighbor is the equivalent of keeping the Moral Law (like: Do not kill, do not steal, do not covet, etc.) (Romans 13:8-10).

God's grace establishes God's laws or righteous living.

Titus 2:11-12 says God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness, and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world.

Ephesians 5:25-27 says that the reason Jesus died for us was for the purpose that He might sanctify and wash us with the water of the Word (i.e. Scripture) so that Christ might present to Himself a church that is holy and without blemish.

Romans 5:21 says that grace reigns (rules) in righteousness (righteous living).

Romans 8:3-4 says that GOD sent His Son to condemn sin in the flesh so that the righteousness of the Law (the righteous aspect or part of the Old Law, i.e. the Moral Law) might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh (sin), but who walk after the Spirit.

One of the passages in the last chapter of Revelation says this,

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

In other words, the Bible ends with saying that believers are blessed by keeping the Lord's commandments and that by doing so, they have right to the tree of life and that they may enter into the city of New Jerusalem. But outside, are sinners. Yet, you say that the Law has no place in the life of the Christian. Very odd. The New Testament is saying something here that is very different than what you are saying.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I plan to gather more examples. But, one that really stands out to me:

In the Sermon on the Mount, Christ taught us to love our enemies. I listened to a sermon by David Guzik, and if he's correct, this love goes beyond emotion (e.g. care for their soul) and extends to even assisting (though not assisting in evil acts) not just personal enemies, but enemies of society. So, for example, we might assist a serial killer in his walk through life.

This seems very contrary to the Old Testament, which has imprecatory psalms and in which Ecclesiastes tells us that there's a time for hate.

I'm curious about this specifically, but I'm also curious generally: why does the NT seem so different from the OT, at least when it comes to ethics?

The Mosaic law was intended to define what sin is and also later be a stumbling block for the Pharisees in order to correct them about the means to attain righteousness. This is explained in Romans 11.

“What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened; just as it is written, " GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY." And David says, " LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP, AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM. " LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT, AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER." I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be! But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them. For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too. But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree? For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery-so that you will not be wise in your own estimation-that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, " THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB." " THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS." From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all. Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR? Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN? For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭11:7-36‬ ‭NASB‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

I disagree. Jesus did not teach Old Covenant primarily but He taught New Covenant. He was making changes to the OT Law during His earthly ministry before the New Covenant went into effect officially with His death (click on the following spoiler button to check the verses).

Spoiler

Jesus clearly was making changes to the Law (even before the cross):
(Which means He was not teaching primarily Old Covenant, but New Covenant):

The Old Way says:
"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth"
(Matthew 5:38 cf. Exodus 21:23-25).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:39).


The Old Way says:
"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment" (Matthew 5:21 cf. Numbers 35:30-32).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." (Matthew 5:22).


The Old Way says:
"Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:" (Matthew 5:34 cf. Numbers 30:1-2, Deuteronomy 23:21).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
34 "But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil." (Matthew 5:34-37).


The Old Way says:
"And of thy mercy cut off mine enemies, and destroy all them that afflict my soul: for I am thy servant." (Psalms 143:12).

"And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the LORD: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent." (Joshua 6:17).

"And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword." (Joshua 6:21).

16 "But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee" (Deuteronomy 20:16-17).

"They did not destroy the nations, concerning whom the LORD commanded them" (Psalms 106:34).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" (Matthew 5:44).

Note: Yes, I am aware that the Old Way (Old Testament) also teaches to love one's enemies (Exodus 23:4-5) (Proverbs 25:21), but this was in context to their own Israelite people, and not pagan nations. Pagan nations were to be destroyed when God commanded the Israelites to destroy them. But Jesus taught a radically different way. Love your enemies, and do good to them that hate you, and to pray for those who persecute you.


The Old Way says:
20 "But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the harlot in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel." (Deuteronomy 22:20-22).

4 "They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?" (John 8:4-5).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. " (John 8:7).


Even after the cross, there were changes being made:

The Old Covenant says this about circumcision:
"And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." (Genesis 17:14).

Yet, the New Covenant says this about circumcision:
"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing."
(Galatians 5:2).


The Old Covenant says this about the Sabbath:
32 "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses." (Numbers 15:32-36).

Yet, the New Covenant says this about the Sabbath:
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" (Colossians 2:16).

So it appears things have changed.

This makes sense because again, Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.

"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."
(Hebrews 7:12).

“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
(John 1:17).

Jesus said,
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." (Matthew 5:17).

Jesus came not to abolish the Law (in the sense of destroying all forms of Law), but Jesus came to fulfill the Law (i.e. to nail to the cross those ordinances that were against us [like the Old Covenant ceremonial laws], and Jesus came to give us a more fulfilled and perfect way of obeying God via the commands that come directly from Him and His followers). For Jesus offered a more perfect way of loving God, and loving our neighbor (Which of course is only possible via if we are first saved by God's grace through faith).

Yes, the Old Law has ended (i.e. the 613 laws within the Law of Moses is no more as a binding contract); But to say that God's laws (in general today or New Testament Law) have no place in the life of a Christian is simply not true. While believers are guided by the Spirit to love, this is in harmony with obeying God's commands or laws in the New Covenant (or New Testament). There are approximately 450 explicit commands in the New Testament. These are all there by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. You cannot establish righteous living or love without God's laws or without upholding a standard of morality or a code of conduct. For Paul says that loving your neighbor is the equivalent of keeping the Moral Law (like: Do not kill, do not steal, do not covet, etc.) (Romans 13:8-10).

God's grace establishes God's laws or righteous living.

Titus 2:11-12 says God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness, and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world.

Ephesians 5:25-27 says that the reason Jesus died for us was for the purpose that He might sanctify and wash us with the water of the Word (i.e. Scripture) so that Christ might present to Himself a church that is holy and without blemish.

Romans 5:21 says that grace reigns (rules) in righteousness (righteous living).

Romans 8:3-4 says that GOD sent His Son to condemn sin in the flesh so that the righteousness of the Law (the righteous aspect or part of the Old Law, i.e. the Moral Law) might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh (sin), but who walk after the Spirit.

One of the passages in the last chapter of Revelation says this,

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

In other words, the Bible ends with saying that believers are blessed by keeping the Lord's commandments and that by doing so, they have right to the tree of life and that they may enter into the city of New Jerusalem. But outside, are sinners. Yet, you say that the Law has no place in the life of the Christian. Very odd. The New Testament is saying something here that is very different than what you are saying.

I think the major difference is that the law was intended to establish what sin is and to be a stumbling block for the self righteous so that all could see their sinful nature. I believe this is what Paul was speaking about in Romans 11. I wouldn’t exactly say that the law is done away with per say but instead that in the New Covenant Christ emphasized the purpose for which the laws were written which were to love God with all our heart, soul, and mind; and to love others as Jesus loves us. So in a sense by keeping the two most important commandments we are actually keeping the purpose for which the laws were given. If we follow Jesus’ two commandments we will automatically keep the OT commandments of God.

 

[zoidar]

You haven't even bothered to show what the word means in the Hebrew. You only shared what you believe it means.

Now the LORD saw that Leah was...

śânê'

1) to hate, be hateful

1a) (Qal) to hate

1a1) of man

1a2) of God

1a3) hater, one hating, enemy (participle) (substantive)

1b) (Niphal) to be hated

1c) (Piel) hater (participle)

1c1) of persons, nations, God, wisdom

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I think the major difference is that the law was intended to establish what sin is and to be a stumbling block for the self righteous so that all could see their sinful nature. I believe this is what Paul was speaking about in Romans 11. I wouldn’t exactly say that the law is done away with per say but instead that in the New Covenant Christ emphasized the purpose for which the laws were written which were to love God with all our heart, soul, and mind; and to love others as Jesus loves us. So in a sense by keeping the two most important commandments we are actually keeping the purpose for which the laws were given. If we follow Jesus’ two commandments we will automatically keep the OT commandments of God.

When I say that the Old Law is done away with I am speaking contractually (as a whole set of laws together), and not exhaustivey (as if to refer to individual commands) (Note: Think of like a contract in buying a house; If a new contract is made, that does not mean the old contract may not repeat some of the same things). Anyways, the Moral Law (like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc.) existed before the Law of Moses. I believe the Moral Law came into existence after the Fall of Adam and Eve when they received the knowledge of good and evil. These moral laws were clearly repeated in the sum total of the 613 laws within the Law of Moses; And these moral laws still continue to exist today under the New Covenant or New Testament. But there are other Laws that are unique to the New Covenant, though.

When Jesus said He came not to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it, I take that as Him saying that He came not to destroy all forms of Law, but He came to fulfill them into the fruition of the New Covenant commands or teachings. The NT Commands are far superior to the OT commands. They focus more on loving (like loving your enemy, etc.), and on forgiveness, and in putting one's treasure in Heaven, and looking to Jesus, etc.

I also believe the New Covenant is far more than just the two greatest commands, as well. Again, there are approximately 450 explicit general commands given to the believer in the NT. Logically, they most likely all would naturally hang on the greatest two (just like with the OT Law). But to just say that all we need is the two greatest commands is not exactly accurate - IMO. A person may take loving the Lord as drawing pictures of Jesus or something or in praying in a cave their whole lives with not much human contact. But the New Testament defines how we are to love God in more detail. We are to preach the gospel, help the poor, love the brethren, love our enemies, etc. These are just the tip of the iceburg in loving God and in loving our neighbor.

 

[ewq1938]

Yep, the word means hate.

Now the LORD saw that Leah was...

śânê'

1) to hate, be hateful

1a) (Qal) to hate

1a1) of man

1a2) of God

1a3) hater, one hating, enemy (participle) (substantive)

1b) (Niphal) to be hated

1c) (Piel) hater (participle)

1c1) of persons, nations, God, wisdom

 

[BNR32FAN]

When I say that the Old Law is done away with I am speaking contractually (as a whole set of laws together), and not exhaustivey (as if to refer to individual commands) (Note: Think of like a contract in buying a house; If a new contract is made, that does not mean the old contract may not repeat some of the same things). Anyways, the Moral Law (like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc.) existed before the Law of Moses. I believe the Moral Law came into existence after the Fall of Adam and Eve when they received the knowledge of good and evil. These moral laws were clearly repeated in the sum total of the 613 laws within the Law of Moses; And these moral laws still continue to exist today under the New Covenant or New Testament. But there are other Laws that are unique to the New Covenant, though.

When Jesus said He came not to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it, I take that as Him saying that He came not to destroy all forms of Law, but He came to fulfill them into the fruition of the New Covenant commands or teachings. The NT Commands are far superior to the OT commands. They focus more on loving (like loving your enemy, etc.), and on forgiveness, and in putting one's treasure in Heaven, and looking to Jesus, etc.

I also believe the New Covenant is far more than just the two greatest commands, as well. Again, there are approximately 450 explicit general commands given to the believer in the NT. Logically, they most likely all would naturally hang on the greatest two (just like with the OT Law). But to just say that all we need is the two greatest commands is not exactly accurate - IMO. A person may take loving the Lord as drawing pictures of Jesus or something or in praying in a cave their whole lives with not much human contact. But the New Testament defines how we are to love God in more detail. We are to preach the gospel, help the poor, love the brethren, love our enemies, etc. These are just the tip of the iceburg in loving God and in loving our neighbor.

I agree that it is necessary for the scriptures to give us examples of how to keep Jesus’ two commandments. Good point.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I agree that it is necessary for the scriptures to give us examples of how to keep Jesus’ two commandments. Good point.

In light of the greatest two commandments: You could say that all the other commands in the NT are like subcommands in a way (like: Preaching the gospel, helping the poor, loving the brethren by feeding them, loving one's enemies, contending for the faith, etc.). These subcommands hang on the two greatest two commandments or they help to define the two in more detail (vs. us defining how we should love God and love our neighbor based on our own erroneous thoughts outside of God's Word, like a person thinking they should draw pictures of a European version of Jesus with hearts on them, and or person staying isolated in a cave somewhere in prayer to God their whole lives.).

The approximate 450 explicit commands in the New Testament should not be ignored, but they should help us to properly obey the two greatest commandments. If this is not the case, then I believe we are redefining the 2 greatest commandments to our own liking. For Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments. This would include the command to preach the gospel as a part of the great commission and the other NT commands (Which in turn plays a part in loving God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength).

 

[LightLoveHope]

Striking contrasts

44 "Love your enemy"
Mat 5
5 'You are a stiff-necked people. If I were to go with you even for a moment, I might destroy you."
Exodus 33

As a youngster, I liked this loving, open, accepting Jesus, and was mystified about the God of war and judgement.

What I came to realise people can both be loving and also deeply evil and cruel to a degree that is almost unbelievable, as demonstrated by the holocaust, Pol Pot, Rwanda.
It is hard to see how one can bring justice and righteousness to such a world except as described through scripture.

Until I saw the evil in some, without restraint, I could not imagine that man deserved to be destroyed. I now see without holding the light love and truth, and sowing to life, people can become corrupt, evil, totally destroying communities which in effect eat people alive, like living in a hell on earth.

How could a community sacrifice children to a god? It is difficult to imagine the state of desperation and compromise that could go this far, but this was once the acceptable face of civilisation.