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Featured OT vs NT -- Why the striking contrasts?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by blackhole, Oct 14, 2019.

  1. blackhole

    blackhole Member

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    I plan to gather more examples. But, one that really stands out to me:

    In the Sermon on the Mount, Christ taught us to love our enemies. I listened to a sermon by David Guzik, and if he's correct, this love goes beyond emotion (e.g. care for their soul) and extends to even assisting (though not assisting in evil acts) not just personal enemies, but enemies of society. So, for example, we might assist a serial killer in his walk through life.

    This seems very contrary to the Old Testament, which has imprecatory psalms and in which Ecclesiastes tells us that there's a time for hate.

    I'm curious about this specifically, but I'm also curious generally: why does the NT seem so different from the OT, at least when it comes to ethics?
     
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  2. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Either God in the OT changed, or He was trying to show us what fails or does not work on purpose, at least, after the Law was introduced anyway...

    God Bless!
     
  3. blackhole

    blackhole Member

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    There's a difference between allowing us to do things incorrectly to show that they don't work, and condoning it. Ecclesiastes condones hate.
     
  4. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

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    Hi blackhole,

    Purpose!

    God bless,
    In Christ, ted
     
  5. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Now did the Law fail, or did the standard change...? No, it didn't, but the "way", did...

    The "way" of the Law in the OT was wrong, or was made in order for it (that way) to fail...

    Now did God in and of the OT, mean for it to do that on purpose...? or not...?

    What do you think...?

    God Bless!
     
  6. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    So, what do you think...?

    God Bless!
     
  7. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Pilgrim

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    I don't see that. You talk about imprecatory psalms, but you have Jesus saying, "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea" (Matt. 18:6). Don't you remember the woes Jesus pronounced on the cities and the religious leaders that rejected him? It is in harmony with the Old Testament language.

    You will find great examples of God's love, mercy and grace extended throughout the Old Testament, as well as displays of his wrath and justice in the New Testament. It was not novel in the time of Jesus to say you must love your enemies, matter of fact Paul quotes the Old Testament when he said, "If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat, and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink, for you will heap burning coals on his head, and the Lord will reward you" (Prov. 25:21-22). Matter of fact, didn't we see this displayed to the armies of Syria by the hand of Elisha in 2 Kings 6?

    I think such ideas come from an immature understanding of both of them.
     
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  8. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    The are different and nearly the opposite...

    How many times did Jesus say, "You have heard it said", etc, "but I say" etc, etc, etc...

    They are/were different and nearly two totally different philosophies and/or "ways"...

    Now how you explain it or reconcile it or that, is up to you...

    But it does stand that they are nigh two totally different philosophies or ways or truths, etc...

    God Bless!
     
  9. blackhole

    blackhole Member

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    So then, when it is proper to show hatred of the sort that Christ did (pronouncing woe, etc.)?
     
  10. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Pilgrim

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    When Jesus said things like "you have heard it said," he was referring to the abuse of Scripture by the scribes and Pharisees. He was correcting them. They would use the statement eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth to justify revenge, but that was not what that statement was meant for. They misquoted that, when it originally meant in a court of law the punishment must be measured up to the crime judicially. They would say that they don't commit adultery, because they took the commandment externally, but Jesus points out that the commandment penetrates to the heart of adultery - lust, and that one commits that sin without physically doing it. In that section of his sermon, he was shutting down their misunderstanding.
     
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  11. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    No, it meant that one should repaid or paid back equally and in equal measure for whatever wrong they committed or did to you personally, and Jesus said that that wasn't so or wasn't the "right way", etc...

    It was about taking vengeance, etc...

    This part is right, but your presenting it in a very wrong and incorrect way...

    Jesus was expounding on the Law in order to show the impossibility for anyone and everyone to live up to or keep it perfectly by themselves or in their own strength, which was the way of the Law in the OT and with the OT commands or commandments, etc...

    What about when and where Jesus says that, "You have heard it said to love your neighbor or brothers but hate your enemies, but I tell you to love your enemies and to pray for those doing wrong to or against you", etc...

    How is that not clearly very different and even the opposite from the OT, OC way or ways...?

    God Bless!
     
  12. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Pilgrim

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    When it is in line with examples in Scripture.

    I sing the Psalms with all of their imprecation and maledictions, because I am praying and singing of divine justice and goodness over the evil in the world. This doesn't negate my love for the individual to find salvation. You can have both - a love for the sinner and a desire for justice against the enemies.
     
  13. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Jesus didn't hate them, He loved them...

    And anyone telling you otherwise is false...

    God Bless!
     
  14. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Pilgrim

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    Is God the same God in both the Old and New Testament?

    You must remember, if Jesus is God then he was both the author and giver of the Law. He said you must stone the homosexual in Israel's theocratic society. He said you must burn the cities and towns of the Canaanites in the book of Joshua. It is only consistent if you believe Jesus is God, otherwise you are denying it and separating him from the Trinity. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the same in essence, but distinct in person. They have the same "morals" and "judgments." He doesn't change, he is immutable.
     
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  15. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    I think one of the reasons is that Law is associated with curses for disobedience. (Deut 28)

    Grace is a different ball game. (Gal 3)

    However it is established that God Hates sin. OT
    But this Hate is satisfied, nullified through the cross. NT

    But the consequences for ignoring the gift of grace are more severe. Heb 2:1-4

    Just some thoughts...
     
  16. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    God is a Trinity...

    And, I'm not allowed to get to much into details about my beliefs on the Trinity on here, so...

    And as I stated earlier, either God changed, or He was trying to show us what fails or does not work on purpose, at least, after the Law was introduced anyway...

    God Bless!
     
  17. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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  18. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    I don't know, is He...? Or was He or They "always", etc...?

    I believe Jesus is/was God...

    But, how do you explain the almost two totally different philosophies...?

    OK, distinct in person "how"...? Do you mean "different"...?

    Did they always...?

    OK, then how do you explain the almost two totally different philosophies...?

    God Bless!
     
  19. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    In today's terms that would be "frenemies" which are friends but ones that you have issues with. Jesus was enemies with people he did not love or even like...such as some Pharisees that he said were evil and going to hell.
     
  20. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Not sure I agree with this...

    His love is towards all, continuously, but He hates the sin that makes them evil and going to hell. His rebuke is in Love in the hope they may repent.
     
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