Ossetia: Explain, please.

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MariaRegina

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Exactly. Please read this link:

Source: Secret IDF material went unguarded in Georgia

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3583278,00.html


When you read this account from a valid Israeli news source, then you realize that there were six parties involved:

Georgia
U.S. Military Advisors obstensively training the Georgian Orthodox Christians to serve in Iraq
Israeli Military Advisors
Abkhazians
Ossetians, and
Russians

In addition, there have been reports that Ukrainian and Polish soldiers also volunteered as mercenaries. I forgot the site I read about their involvement.

Now convoys of U.S. warships are moving into the port of Georgia obstensively to provide aid, but they are more likely to provide military support to rebuild bridges and the two bases in Georgia which are said to have been disabled by the Russians.

I guess we will never know the full truth here. However, look how close Georgia is to Iran. Will Georgian missiles built by the US be used to strike Iran and possibly push us into WWIII? Let us pray not.

Therefore, we must ask:
(1) it is only the oil and oil pipeline that is motivating Georgia in heir desire to control South Ossetia?
(2) is Georgia a strategic site needed by international forces for deployment of missiles and aircraft to Iran?
(3) are both the oil pipeline and bases in Georgia equally important to Israel and the West?

Here are some more references:

US, UK, France launch sea exercise for naval blockade on Iran

http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5452


World atlas of Europe and the Middle East

http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/eu.htm



Just a few comments:

1)When a government sends its army to dispose of an ethnic minority by force this is considered ethnic cleansing and more appropriately genocide.
2)The Ossetians consider themselves Russian citizens and carry Russian passports. Therefore the Georgian army was attacking Russian citizens.
3)There were Russian peacekeepers assigned to the area that the Georgians attacked and killed.
4)There are 4 parties that are in this predicament, Georgians, Abkhazians, Ossetians and Russians. 3 of the 4 parties state Georgia is the aggressor and instigator.
5)Globally, if the Russians started building missile silos in Mexico and Canada, more specifically bordering regions, the U.S. should appropriately be concerned about Russia’s actions.
6)It is absurd to think when Russian citizens are being attacked that Russia would stand back and do nothing.
 
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EvangeliGirl

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Since I've posted some information from Russian sources (as well as independent sources) I thought I should share a bit from the 'other side'. There are both Russians and Georgians in my church, but, of course, there is nothing but support and concern for each other in our parish. My catechist, who is also the choir director, is acquainted with John A. Graham, an American ethnomusicologist and Georgian chant scholar. His efforts to popularize Georgian chant and culture includes conducting monastery tours (which you can read about here).

John is currently in Georgia, and his blog, (http://www.johningeorgia.blogspot.com/), details some of the horrific things that Georgians are currently having to endure. Of all the politics wrapped into this conflict and it's implications for the whole world, I still find the most important thing I can do is to be willing to listen to the stories of those suffering and pray for them.

Here is a letter sent to John (posted on his blog), from Ketevan Tsikhelashvili, Director of Liberal Academy-Tbilisi, Consultant of the Friedrich Naumann Foundation in Georgia, and Analyst of European Stability Initiative (ESI) in Georgia, with updates on the conflict. It paints a vivid picture of what life is like there right now.

August 19, 2008

Dear colleagues and friends,

I am sure you are all well aware of and closely follow Russia's open, direct
and full scale military aggression against Georgia which resulted in the
occupation of the country's large part. I am also sure you are well informed
about intensive air-raids and bombing of numerous sites, including civilian
targets and peaceful population since 8 August for the next couple of days
as well as explosions and devastation of military, civil and important
communication infrastructure which still goes on now, when I am writing this letter. I have been in touch with many of you throughout these days and I appreciate your awareness, concern and support.

The intention of this informal info letter is not to provide a complete
overview or in depth analysis of the whole picture, but just share with you
some basic facts that take place in Georgia *particularly after* Russia
signed Sarkozy-facilitated final ceasefire agreement and pledged to withdraw on 16 August, (not to mention Medvedev's verbal and signed commitments earlier).

The towns and villages of the country in and far beyond the conflict zones
remain occupied by Russian regular troops and heavy armament. The Russian military together with Abkhaz separatist groupings have spilled over the administrative border of conflict zone and intervened in several adjacent Georgian villages of Megrelia region, in the attempt to impose
administrative control over there, as reported on 16 August. Several bridges
have been mined, as reported on 17 August. Those bridges are linking the
Kodori gorge (upper Abkhazia, which was under Georgian control until 12
August) and some other locations in vicinity (in Svaneti region) to the rest
of Georgia.

The villages of Shida Kartli, beyond the conflict zone of South Osseita,
continue to be occupied as well. The local population suffers humiliation,
robbery, rape, kidnapping and killing, particularly in the villages around
Gori. The civilian houses are swept away (even the items such as washing
detergents, toilet basins, soaps and dishes are stolen not to speak about
the clothing, food, computers, TV sets and cars).

I had my relatives, the IDPs from village Karaleti (close to Gori) visiting
over two days ago, parents and four kids who were lucky to flee before
Russians and Ossetian separatists entered. They now shelter another relative of ours in Tbilisi. In my presence, they talked on the mobile with their neighbors hiding in the cellar of their house - the elderly man was injured with badly developing infection and they had practically no medication and food, neither they could come out because they would risk their lives badly. Moreover, they would not be able to get anything from their or neighbors' houses because they have been robbed for several times already. They said they heard some of their village fellows were killed in their own yards just because they spoke Georgian. Many houses have been burnt down (possibly, as they said, the executors were also the Ossetian groupings).

The Georgian strategic premises/military basis are completely emptied both
in Eastern and especially Western Georgia and whatever cannot be transported during the raids (and taken to the two conflict zones), are simply exploded and burnt at spot. Despite the formal ceasefire and withdrawal commitment, the Russian troops continue occupying and dangerously maneuvering in and around important towns of Georgia: Gori, (largely devastated by explosions), Poti, Senaki, Zugdidi, Khashuri, Kaspi (the nearest location to Tbilisi entrances) and surrounding villages.

Also, after the Kremlin ceasefire commitment the Russian military
helicopters worked "hard and well" on the evening of 15 August to instigate
several fire spots in the National park of Borjomi resulting into a drastic
ecological disaster in the forest, while fire can still not be extinguished
due to restrictions on air navigation and traffic movement on the highway.
Already 230 hectares of National Park forest is extinguished and fire
becomes more violent, attacking villages just on the road to Bakuriani.
Russians disregard the appeal of Georgian side to open the Gori-Borjomi part
of the highway to allow the fire-machines and equipment move. They also
ignored for long the request to let the international special planes
(Ukrainian and Turkish) by arranging the air corridor in order to help local
firefighters! Some of the Turkish planes are in place since yesterday 18
august but fire is far stronger, still cannot be stopped and damage is too
large.

The Poti port where Georgian vessels were exploded and sunk, for a few days now come under repeated attacks of Russian military, The Poti Terminal which is a private property also experiences repeated raids of marauders. On 19 August, the Russian military intruded again in Poti terminal as media reported and have captured the servicemen from Georgian Defence Ministry who came today to oversee the situation there and refuse to release them now.

The railway connection between East and West Georgia was exploded close to Kaspi on afternoon 16 August which resulted in the disruption of the
strategically important communication, affecting neighbouring countries as
well. At the same time the central highway also remains blocked by Russian
troops. People in the capital felt all these days sporadically alarmed
about repeated intervention attempts of Russian army marching occasionally towards Tbilisi. On 17 August they moved closer towards Tbilisi and stationed themselves in Igoeti which is around 40 kilometers away from
Tbilisi. On 18 August, the Russian military intruded deeper and approached
town of Borjomi, where Georgian police stopped them and did not let them in. The other part of their troops decided to maneuver in the surroundings of Igoeti, turned into the village Lamiskana. While Geiorgian patrol police
tried to block their way and again persuade them to stop marching, the
police cars were simply smashed by the Russian tanks to pave the way.

On 19 August, the civilians mostly young people have staged a peaceful march to protest Russian deployment in Igoeti. The similar protests take place today in Samegrelo towns with participation of church clergy and local population.

The Georgian journalist, young lady from Public Television was shot while
reporting in live at the outskirts of Gori (15 August), Yet she was lucky to
be only scratched by one out of many sniper bullets, unlike some other
international and local journalists who were killed or heavily injured in
Russian occupied and controlled areas (4 journalists killed and 14 injured).
And this is not the end of the destruction story while there is a
humanitarian disaster involving the suffering of those already 118,000
displaced (UNHCR estimates for 17 August) who shelter mostly Tbilisi and
Kutaisi, and especially those who remain and are stuck in the regions
occupied and controlled by Russians. The civilian bodies or body particles
linger on the side of the road in already unidentifiable conditions are not
allowed to be taken away and buried. I went to some of the shelters to help IDPs with whatever I could, and of course it is very difficult to hear the stories of human suffering, from any side!

Sarkozy-negotiated and Russian-pledged humanitarian corridor is not allowed by the Russian militaries that delays further badly needed relief to human suffering while time means everything for them at this point. Only the Georgian patriarch with his ardent affords was able to get in Gori on 16
August and take away 6 corps from the streets as well as a few injured
civilians, mostly women by his escort cars.

On 17 august, German Chancellor Merkel visited Tbilisi and was very
articulate in her political messages to Moscow requesting Russia to obey the agreement and withdraw. Whereas US State secretary during her receding visit in Georgia again reminded Kremlin that this is no more 1968, and Mr. Sarkozy and other European presidents and leaders travel back and force to convince Moscow of ceasefire amd withdrawal, the Russians blow the deal to demonstrate that they simple Don't Care!

France makes repeated statements requesting Russia to fulfill the commitment but again in vain. Sarkozy spoke to Medvedev on the evening of 17 August and in response he got repeated promise that Russians will start to withdraw on 18 August, however how fast it will be or when it will be over was not specified.

Yet none of this happened, neither on 16, nor 17, 18 or 19 August as for
today.

Merkel also pointed that by 19 August while NATO ministerial takes place the picture should be clear and Russians shall be at least starting the pull
back, but likewise other statements, this was not taken seriously in Moscow.

Before withdrawal (if and when this takes place we still do not know), as
our experience from last two weeks tells, the Russian troops will try to
harm as much as possible on the "final note." The Russian military staff on
17 August were even talking on Georgian TV about substituting the regular
troops with the "peacekeepers" in all dislocations which they occupy now
(including Georgian proper territory). This would mean in fact nothing but
sticking to their uniforms an absurd sign "MC" (*Mirotvorcheskie Sili
- *peacekeeping forces). I hope this is not true or just an outdated order which one of the Russian vodka-affected generals has conveyed by mistake.

I believe that the international message shall get more consolidated, strict
and clear as all terminology and language used up to now have proved to be less effective or at least non-understandable for Moscow. I hope the
conjoint efforts will yield some concrete results in terms of first, driving
out occupant army from Georgia proper territory and then, let the
international police enter the conflict zones.

But unfortunately my hopes are not substantiated by what's happening on
ground as I described above. The rest of the troops are firmly stationed in
all places where they have been up to now and again despite manifold
commitments of Russia's president, they do not move an inch back. Hence,
this is a reality! This is how Russian reality matches what they report or
pledge! I only hope the rest of the world, at least for themselves will make
very clear conclusions on what they will have to increasingly deal with in
the face of novo-Soviet Russia.

Finally and sadly, I do not share the optimism (or better say the nihilism)
of those few who do not appreciate the risks of irresolute reactions to
Russia's brutal freehand actions now and its tragic consequences not only
for Georgia today but the whole Caucasus region tomorrow and beyond…

Thank for your time and consideration,

Best wishes with the hopes for better times soon,

Keti
 
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Yeznik

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Unfortunately the situation in Georgia is not that cut and dry. There are Georgians who want a change in Georgia but again they were attacked by the government. I don't know if anyone here recalls but there was a large demonstration which caused a state of emergency in Georgia sometime last year:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/07/AR2007110700250.html.

The following is a from the above article regarding the current government in Georgia:

"Opponents say Saakashvili's government has become increasingly authoritarian in ways that echo Soviet days, allowing judicial abuse and political intimidation. They note that former defense minister Irakli Okruashvili, after accusing the president of corruption and a murder conspiracy, then went on television to recant his claims. Now abroad, he has reiterated his accusations.
On Wednesday, police and protesters engaged in extended battles in the streets; officers attacked some passersby who appeared to have no connection to the protest. The government later announced that 508 people had been hospitalized, of whom 412 were released. The injured include 24 policemen.
Tina Khidasheli, an opposition leader, said in an interview that she had been beaten and hit with a tear gas canister when police moved in. She blamed the violence in part on the United States' "unconditional support" for Georgia's ruling party, adding that she thought her country's leadership would have respected the rule of law more if U.S. officials had insisted it be upheld.
"For four years they did not question anything Saakashvili was doing," she said. "Beacon of democracy? The shining of democracy was in the streets today."
Georgian political scientist Giorgi Margvelashvili said that while Georgia has been a democracy up until now, he worries it will become "a police state where people will be put into prison as a matter of policy."



First and foremost this is politics and not religion.

Secondly, it takes 2 sides to fight a war.

Thirdly, we should all pray for what is going on in the Caucuses right now, whether Georgian, Russian, Ossetian, Abkhazian or any nation living there.



And lastly this not an Orthodox vs. Orthodox war.
 
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MariaRegina

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I heard from someone that the President of Georgia has become increasingly unpopular and that he may be offered refuge in the USA. Some of the Georgian soldiers were horrified at what they had been requested to do in South Ossetia ... kill villagers and use the village church as a staging ground. It went against their Orthodox Christian beliefs.

He should be tried for genocide.
 
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Yeznik

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One thing to keep in mind Georgia is a multi-ethnic country. It is not like the other countries in the region in regards to an ethnic majority. Let me further explain, in a neighboring country such as Armenia, the majority of the population of Armenia is 98% Armenian this is not the case with Georgia. Approximately 25-30% of people living in Georgia are not Georgian. So to break it down in numbers the Georgian population is roughly about 4 and half million people in which 1.1 million people are not ethnically Georgian, which is a part of the issue.

Secondly, the borders in Caucuses that where drawn during the Soviet Union was to create instability in the region if it ever fell out of Soviet rule, so since the fall of the Soviet Union in the early 90’s there has beat at least 3-4 wars in the region not to mention what happened in Eastern Europe.
 
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Yeznik

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Are you living in Armenia?

I looked at the map and Armenia borders much of Georgia. Has any violence spilled into Armenia from Georgia?

Hello MariaRegina,

I do not live in Armenia, but my wife has family there and I have friends who visit and stay there often.

There has been violence between the Georgians and the Armenians but not from the current war.
 
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E.C.

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Just a few comments:

1)When a government sends its army to dispose of an ethnic minority by force this is considered ethnic cleansing and more appropriately genocide.
2)The Ossetians consider themselves Russian citizens and carry Russian passports. Therefore the Georgian army was attacking Russian citizens.
3)There were Russian peacekeepers assigned to the area that the Georgians attacked and killed.
4)There are 4 parties that are in this predicament, Georgians, Abkhazians, Ossetians and Russians. 3 of the 4 parties state Georgia is the aggressor and instigator.
5)Globally, if the Russians started building missile silos in Mexico and Canada, more specifically bordering regions, the U.S. should appropriately be concerned about Russia’s actions.
6)It is absurd to think when Russian citizens are being attacked that Russia would stand back and do nothing.
The bold and underlined sentence is what is critical in this whole conflict and that which the West is ignoring (or just does not care).

Honestly, if the Greek and Turkish parts of Cyprus banded together to overrun the British bases on the island, wouldn't the British either retake and defend the bases or take the whole island? The same can be said about Ceuta, Melilla, Spain and Morocco.



Secondly, the borders in Caucuses that where drawn during the Soviet Union was to create instability in the region if it ever fell out of Soviet rule, so since the fall of the Soviet Union in the early 90’s there has beat at least 3-4 wars in the region not to mention what happened in Eastern Europe.
I feel that one thing that needed to be done after Communism fell in the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia was a good redrawing of the borders.


A map of the Caucasus thanks to Wikipeidia:


516px-Caucasus-ethnic_en.svg.png


The way I see it, is that unless a few borders are redrawn and moved around, than it will remain a powder keg for the time being.
 
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Kolya

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Hi April,

Personally, I believe Putin to be sincere (and I see no reason to doubt Medvedev either). And no, I do not think that the Church is becoming corrupt in Russia. I do think that the Church needs to be careful with their relationship with the state, but I see it as a blessing that the state now supports the Church in Russia after persecuting it for so long.
Daniel

For the Record, both the Russian and Georgian Orthodox Patriachs were the frist to join hands and requested both sides to cease fire. There will still be much diplomatic wrangling, but Russia did what it was supposed to do... save unnecessary loss of life, and Police the area properly.

Also note, Russia did not blow up the pipeline through Georgia either. That would not be in their best interests.

As for Poland, if they know what's good for them, they better get that "Tracking Station" out of their back yard, or there WILL be very serious trouble for them and the rest of us citizens of Planet Earth too.

And the EU does not want sanctions against Russia either, otherwise they may get cold this coming winter.:)

The Putin/ Medvedev partership is sound, and they are well guided by Patriarch Alexei too. Please pray for them. They need our prayers.
If anyone has read the Prophecies of the Staret's from the 19th Century (Esp St Seraphim) then you will know how important Russia is to end-time events.

My 2 kopeks worth.
 
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Kolya

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Are you living in Armenia?

I looked at the map and Armenia borders much of Georgia. Has any violence spilled into Armenia from Georgia?

I'll answer for that, though I'm half a world away.
No, for once Armenia has been quiet. Anyway, Russia has them in their back pocket, so to speak. There is a massive Russian AFB in Armenia crowded with Sukoi's and other military hardware to protect its interests both in Iran and the Caucasus region in general.

Keep in mind that Putin stated in March this year any attack on Iran would be considered an attack on Russia!
 
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Yeznik

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I'll answer for that, though I'm half a world away.
No, for once Armenia has been quiet. Anyway, Russia has them in their back pocket, so to speak. There is a massive Russian AFB in Armenia crowded with Sukoi's and other military hardware to protect its interests both in Iran and the Caucasus region in general.

Keep in mind that Putin stated in March this year any attack on Iran would be considered an attack on Russia!

Armenia is a small country which is landlocked and surrounded by hostile neighbors on its borders. But, it is the most stable country in the Caucuses which is pro-Russian for the following reasons. There is a “basic” agreement between Russia and Armenia that if Armenia is somehow attacked, or invaded it is the same as attacking Russia. That being said Armenia and Russia have a very favorable relationship which involves military and financial investments done in Armenia by Russians. Regarding the Russian base in Armenia, when the Russians withdrew their troops form Georgia several years ago they put them in Armenia.

Additionally, Armenia has had a long history with Russia compared to the West and at times has acted sympathetically to Armenia. And geopolitically, Russia has made a very wise investment in Armenia to protect it own interests in the region.

One thing Armenia has always known (in the wake of recent events). Only an imbecile pokes a sleeping bear and expects nothing to happen.
 
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Krus

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Armenia is a small country which is landlocked and surrounded by hostile neighbors on its borders. But, it is the most stable country in the Caucuses which is pro-Russian for the following reasons. There is a “basic” agreement between Russia and Armenia that if Armenia is somehow attacked, or invaded it is the same as attacking Russia. That being said Armenia and Russia have a very favorable relationship which involves military and financial investments done in Armenia by Russians. Regarding the Russian base in Armenia, when the Russians withdrew their troops form Georgia several years ago they put them in Armenia.

Additionally, Armenia has had a long history with Russia compared to the West and at times has acted sympathetically to Armenia. And geopolitically, Russia has made a very wise investment in Armenia to protect it own interests in the region.

One thing Armenia has always known (in the wake of recent events). Only an imbecile pokes a sleeping bear and expects nothing to happen.

Yeznik, last time I've been in Armenia this summer. As I saw, Armenia have no other choice without Russia. Muslims are arround Armenia except Georgia.
 
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