OSASers must believe that God created human robots!

EmSw said:

I'm sure those who heard him say these words thought he was being difficult.

Anyway, if any facet in the process of salvation is missing, is that person still saved?

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No facet will be missing.

Marvin Knox said:

Of course.

That is - provided that he has passed from death to life through being born again.

But then, if God chose a person "for salvation from the beginning through sanctification and belief in the truth", it goes without saying that no such person would fail to reach the point in life where he has passed from death to life.

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So if a person doesn't abstain from sexual immorality, which is our sanctification, he will make it to heaven?
Paul says our salvation is THROUGH sanctification; how do you reconcile your belief if one does not abstain from sexual immorality?

Then we have this from Revelation 21:8 -

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

How do you propose one would be saved if he doesn't abstain from sexual immorality?

John Robie said:

No facet will be missing.

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Will every believer, that is, the elect, abstain from sexual immorality, which is our sanctification? That's kind of a stretch to believe so, don't you think?

EmSw said:

Will every believer, that is, the elect, abstain from sexual immorality, which is our sanctification? That's kind of a stretch, don't you think?

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Which verse says that abstaining from sexual immorality is our sanctification?

John Robie said:

Which verse says that abstaining from sexual immorality is our sanctification?

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1 Thessalonians 4:3
For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

Not only is it our sanctification, but it is the will of God.

Here is the New King James Version -

For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality;

EmSw said:

1 Thessalonians 4:3
For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

Not only is it our sanctification, but it is the will of God.

Here is the New King James Version -

For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality;

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Yes, that is what we should do. Is there some confusion about this?

John Robie said:

Yes, that is what we should do. Is there some confusion about this?

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No confusion at all on my part. This is what a believer 'should' do concerning his sanctification. And Paul said our salvation is THROUGH sanctification.

EmSw said:

How do you propose one would be saved if he doesn't abstain from sexual immorality?

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By being made a new creation when the the old man was crucified with Christ.

"For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin." Romans 7:14-25

That's Christianity 101 by the way. Apparently you skipped that class.

I added the following to my last post but it may have gone unnoticed since you are camping out here. So I'll put these thoughts here as well.

Your positions remind me in some ways of the young Mormons who come to my door occasionally.

I usually refrain from debating points of doctrine such as the Trinity and such because they can often obscure the most important thing about our differences.

I like to cut to the chase. I often pose a hypothetical question concerning our both being hit by lightning in a moment at the same time.

Are they saved? - I ask. Will they find themselves in the presence of God and totally justified in His sight the second after death?

They have no affirmative answer that they can give because there is no point that they can point to where they have passed out of condemnation.

I then tell them what my situation would immediately be if such a thing were to happen. It stands in stark contrast to theirs.

I then tell them that that is the real important difference between my religion and theirs. I have faith that God is able to keep that which I have entrusted to Him against such an event. They have no such faith.

I am saved right now and I am seated with Him in Heaven. I am ruling and reigning with Him in the Kingdom of God right NOW.

They, on the other hand, have only a vague hope that they will be saved some day if they manage to do certain things without failing.

I am a man of faith (and without faith it is impossible to please God). They (and apparently you as well) are men of religion.

One is authentic Christianity. The other is a cult.

Come in out of the cold. It's warm here under the Lord's wings.

EmSw said:

No confusion at all on my part. This is what a believer 'should' do concerning his sanctification. And Paul said our salvation is THROUGH sanctification.

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Yes. Sanctification is a process. I'm unsure why this is confusing you.

John Robie said:

Yes. Sanctification is a process. I'm unsure why this is confusing you.

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You still haven't answered my question - is a person saved IF sanctification is missing? If our salvation is THROUGH sanctification, then how is it a person is saved if 'our sanctification' is missing? Why are you dodging my question?

EmSw said:

You still haven't answered my question - is a person saved IF sanctification is missing? If our salvation is THROUGH sanctification, then how is it a person is saved if 'our sanctification' is missing? Why are you dodging my question?

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I've answered your questions. I think you are trying to filter them through your presuppositions and they aren't making sense.

And salvation isn't through sanctification. Sanctification is part of salvation, as I stated in my first post.