OSAS- The error that births error

[Norah63]

Post # 12 was such a good read. Thanks for putting it so nicely.
The love of the Lord is our help in any kind of trouble. The more we love Him the safer we are.

 

[gideons300]

Hey there Gid' .. you know (as does any one here who has read often enough) that our stories are very similar in what we were entrapped in and what God has delivered us from .and the intensity of gratitude that pours from our hearts as a result of God has done for us . to go from repetitive daily bondage and self loathing ..to walking free and no longer having to try hard to not sin but rather, literally, dancing through each day with a clear conscience, is something of joy that is inexpressible as far as intellectually explaining it to another ..

but for each of us the Revelation of what we personally needed to comprehend in regard to the power of the cross at work in us ..differed .. so while i fully know and accept your sharing of the need to "rekon ourselves as dead and put on the new man ", in my spirit it does not have the same depth of meaning as it does to you ..

and while i share ..t"o walk in the Spirit and to LISTEN to what god tells you to do and do it and he will lead us to greener pastures where we simply don't do that sin any more .. " i know you fully know and accept that also . but do not comprehend it with the same spiritual revelation as was revealed to me personally ..

we can present the word of God on these matters .. and DO .
but we cannot impute our personally revelation of these maters to another .that is the work of the Holy Spirit .i cannot give what happened to me as a formula that will automatically work for another ..
they will see it with their eyes but not grasp it with their hearts seeing they will not understand .. not until their own heart is so sickened that it cries out not from the intellect but from the depth of their being the depth of their spirit .. and God ,who is spirit ..will hear the contrite "heart" and quickly draw near to help in their true distress.

we must remember that the grace of God led us to desperation in our journey to be free from that which caused us such horror of self loathing and the seed of faith he planted in us sprang forth when he watered it with His holy Spirit .

it was by the hearing of the word of God that faith came to us .. not by the imposing of another's experience upon us .

So we continue to present the whole Gospel and if some say -'yes but yes but ..- to the the straight forward word of god .. they do so because in their heart they are saying "yes but "..to God . seeking to justify the true state of the heart rather then humble themselves and say ..lord you are right i am wrong .. change me .

He loves them he will take to them to task over this in his own way and always for thier best possible outcome (unless they refuse to hear him .)

also i of the opinion that in some cases .people have believed in the lord Jesus for salvation because the concept of heaven is nice and they want that nice stuff .. but they have not yet known Godly sorrow for sin ..which works repentance .i cannot recall how many times i have wept in uncontrollable sobs that rent my heart for the pain i had caused my lord Jesus and others due to my own sin ...
many professing believers don't feel the slightest regret ..they say "sorry forgive me" ..because they want heaven.. not because they are actually sorry .. a bit like a mean brother saying sorry for hitting his sister ..while poking his tongue at her behind mothers back .. the sincerity of the sorrow is feigned .

but so it was with me also for many a time gone by ..
But God searches out the heart ... not the appearance ..
God is able

Michael, my dear brother, you are right. I am so sorry if in my zeal to see others awakened, I end up pressing other's need for a duplicate experience as mine. I am pretty much a black or white, on or off person, That is just how I am wired. But it is always helpful to be offered godly balance such as yours, for I know it comes from loving concern, and from someone who truly longs to please their God. Thank you for your boldness and your heart thoughts.

Although I also press the need for reaching a point where we hate our old self life and its constant rebellion, it is amazing to me, and a testimony to the heart of our Lord, that in Ezekiel 36, the chapter I think we will live to see fulfilled in our walks, God says this. He says that for some, the vision to see how bad and corrupted our old nature really is will only come after...AFTER He awakens and delivers. Although it is a blessed thing to bring oneself down to one's knees willingly and offer up the old nature and to long to be free of it, even for those who resist such "radical" theology, they will eventually be overtaken by the full grace of God. And for these, only then will they look back on their lives and what they adamantly defended, and had pride in, and see it for what it really is. Only then will pride of the old nature be broken and only then will they loathe themselves. For the elect, God will even chase us down and tackle us from behind if needs be. Praise God.

That is how good of a God we serve. He will, for many, save them in spite of themselves. Just as Jesus blessed faithless Thomas with a special gift, He still said it is more blessed to believe without seeing.

May God help me to get out of the way and simply share what God longs to do for each one of us. All that matters is the end result and you are wise to see that. Thanks for being a faithful brother in helping me to see.

God bless you all in the full revelation of Christ in you.

Love you Michael,

Gideon

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Simply to wrap oneself in scripture verses so that we assure ourselves, without examining ourselves whether we "be in the faith" in the way Scriptures mean it, is the great danger.

Blessings,

Gideon

yeah if we base our salvation on the text of the bible but cannot examine the supernatural reality of it . how great of a salvation is it?

thanks for the exchange . blessings

-Michael

 

[TruthInLove]

And what if it is but the end result of loss of conscience is a deminished place in eternity. That is the problem of scriptures tipped in one direction and not including other scripture.

What OSAS demonstrates quite clearly that it is not of God as does the breadth of scripture. It is the cornerstone of the Laodicean Church.

 

[TruthInLove]

Absolutely true.

Before I get into this, I want to state something clearly. To all who love the Lord, who long to please Him, what I share may seem like I am robbing you of your security in Christ. Let me make one thing perfectly clear. If you are determined to make Heaven your home because Jesus is there, there indeed is a way to be assured, absolutely positively guaranteed, that on that day you will hear those seven glorious words:

"Well done, thou good and faithful servant."

All that is to be shared here may seem the opposite, and that my goal is to frighten you, to "abuse" you, to make you insecure. It is not. It is to destroy any false foundations, ones that look good when times are good, but will fail us when the rubber meets the road.

If you will hang in there with me, you will know more security than you thought possible, for the one variable, the weak link, our flesh itself, can be removed from the equation. I have made this a fellowship thread open to any that agree with its premise OR any who simply do not know. Questions may be asked and I or others are free to try to answer them, but if you are of the OSAS belief, I simply do not want to make this a back and forth scriptural wrestling match, leaving true seekers confused and more discouraged than ever. Thanks all in advance for abiding by this request.

But first, we have some false beliefs to deal with. And one that I see as a huge error that satan has succeeded in feeding many is the teaching of Once saved, Always Saved. This belief basically says that once you are saved, nothing can make you unsaved. No sin, no lack of repentance, no living like the lost, no turning our backs on the Lord from the day we got saved until we meet Him on judgment day can affect our eternal salvation. It sounds good, sounds wonderful in fact, but..... is it true?

We all have opinions on this most controversial subject, and most of them are based upon what we have been taught in the pulpit. But to find truth, we cannot look to man's opinion, but to the Word of God He has left us so that we can discern truth and we can discern error. Anything else can lead us into error.

So what does the Bible say about eternal salvation? Well, let's start there:

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him"

Hebrews 5:9

Yes, there is a place where we can be assured that we are and will remain eternally saved. Just obey Him. LOL, I can hear the groans and despair now. "Ohhhhh, is that all?" But the obedience He longs for from us is for us to believe on Him, for without faith, it is impossible to please Him.

If we believe and continue to believe, we are assured of Heaven, Period. As a pastor I had once said. "I believe in the security of a believer. Just stay a believer!" That is why we have been urged by Paul "As you have received Him (by faith alone) so walk ye in Him." (by faith as well).

So does that mean all is good again, that there is no danger now? After all, doesn't the Bible say:

"I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Romans 8:31-39

Glory to God! That is His love for us. And I can understand why, based on this one verse, why the OSAS doctrine has taken hold. But we must notice one thing in this verse that is missing. Just one, but it is a biggie. What is it?

US.

We ourselves can separate ourselves from the love God. Remember, eternal salvation to all them that obey Him. Now, many are convinced that they love the Lord. They believe in Jesus as the atonement for their sins, a perfect sacrifice, and He was. By the shedding of His blood, he makes a way so that even if we sin, we can listen to the Spirit within us chastening us, correcting us, guiding us back onto the pathway of obedience, and be restored.

It sounds like I am arguing FOR the OSAS doctrine, but bear with me. If there is no danger from sin, because we can repent and turn back, how can we fail? Well, what does the word tell us?

"Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. "

Hebrews 5:12-13

Ahh, there is the problem with sin. Can we be forgiven? Absolutely, if we hate it, acknowledge it and turn from it back to Christ. But listen. If we continue to sin, especially the same sin again and again, and I have generally found this is exactly the case with believers, there is danger here, and danger we have not been taught even exists. The danger of having our once hard hearts, stony hearts, softened by the forgiveness of Christ, re-hardened by sin.

Well, can we not continue to repent, confess and receive forgiveness again and again? Absolutely, if we mean it. But there is the issue. Our continued falling to the same sin over and over should awaken us to our need to go deeper into God. Should. But in the modern gospel we have been taught, we have instead turned to the OSAS gospel, and our continued sinning, once meant to driver us deeper to find the free indeed Jesus spoke of, instead assures us of our forgiveness, even as our repentance for our sins becomes shallower and shallower, a ritual, with no heart in it. And that is the danger, for it is with our heart that we believe. Sin can so harden the heart that we can actually come to believe that we can remain in sin and remain in God's covering, and accept the lie the we can actually serve two masters, and we cannot.

I beg you to understand, we can still go to church, shed tears in worship, serve in various ways, and even acknowledge Him with our mouths, but our hearts can indeed stop believing on Him, and that is what must be solved. Thank God there is a solution.

So we see that the issue that must be fixed in order to be assured of our salvation is this.... something has to be done for US... to US... to make US a non-threat, so that sin does not pull us back into unbelief. We will deal with that in another post.

Blessings,

Gideon