OSAS....= is Grace

[JLB777]

IDK for sure...? But I am of the opinion that it cannot though, not really or actually or truly anyway...

Of course it can’t.

Furthermore, it’s a process.

Renewing the mind or restoring the soul is a process.

Transformation is a process.


Repent is immediate and involves a decision to turn to God in submission to Him as Lord.


When we turn to God, we are by default turning away from Satan as our lord and master, to Jesus as Lord.


We are transferred into His kingdom and by default, we are delivered out of the domain of darkness.

• He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, Colossians 1:13

We now have rights as citizens of the kingdom of God, whereby we exorcise our dominion over the sin that dwells in our flesh, as well as the enemy of our soul.




JLB

 

[JLB777]

I think that old man or old person or personality or old nature, will always have a hold on you and will always trip you up (from time to time) (at the least), if you do not have the help of the (Holy) Spirit of God in you, ect...

God Bless!

Yes. It is by the Spirit that we put to death the deeds of the flesh.



For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13





JLB

 

[Danthemailman]

If you believe the Gospel then you will obey the Gospel command to repent, which means to turn to God in submission to Him as Lord.

Those who have obeyed the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel have already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to believe the gospel. To say that you have truly repented, but you don't believe the gospel is an oxymoron. Also, to say that you truly believe the gospel, but you never repented is also an oxymoron. Believers turn to God in submission to Him as Lord as a result of repentance -- (change of mind). - Strong's Greek: 3341. μετάνοια (metanoia) -- change of mind, repentance

The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance (change of mind). Certain people confuse the "fruit of repentance" with the "essence of repentance" (and also do the same thing with faith) and end up teaching salvation by works.

This is done by confessing Jesus as Lord.

Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation, but are chronologically together. (Romans 10:8-10)

Can you show me a scripture where Jesus or His Apostles ever preached this?

Prior to the cross, Jesus and His disciples, along with John the Baptist were preaching the gospel of the kingdom, which was, "..Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matthew 3:2) Jesus Christ sent His disciples to preach only to Israel. Matthew 10:5 - These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ The disciples were specifically told to go only to the people of Israel, and they were not preaching anything about the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

After the cross, we see a distinctive element to the content of the gospel which is called "the mystery of the gospel" (Ephesians 6:19; Colossians 1:26-27; 4:3). This new revelation to the apostle Paul (Galatians 1:11-12) is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow-partakers of the promise (Ephesians 3:1-9). Such equality, Jew and Gentile united together in one body was previously unknown. The distinctive message of the church in this age is that Jew and Gentile alike may believe the gospel and be united together into ONE BODY (Ephesians 1:13; 1 Corinthians 12:13). This is where you need to rightly divide the word of truth.

 

[Danthemailman]

The Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ is the power of God unto salvation.

JLB

Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that BELIEVES..

Galatians 1:11 - But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:1 - Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise.

So what gospel are you preaching?

 

[JLB777]

Those who have obeyed the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel have already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to believe the gospel.

Sorry but obeying the truth is a life long process.


Repent is an eternal commitment to submit to Jesus as Lord, forever.


We are to obey His doctrine, and commandments forever.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9



again




He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4




JLB

 

[JLB777]

Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that BELIEVES..

Galatians 1:11 - But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:1 - Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise.

So what gospel are you preaching?

Yes, believe means obey.



He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
John 3:36





JLB

 

[Danthemailman]

Sorry but obeying the truth is a life long process.

Obeying the truth in our walk with the Lord AFTER we obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel and becoming saved is a life long process and commitment. It's called ongoing sanctification, which is not to be confused with justification.

Repent is an eternal commitment to submit to Jesus as Lord, forever.

Those who have repented are committed to submit to Jesus as Lord, forever. Others merely go through a period of moral self-reformation and continue to seek salvation by works, which they confuse with repentance.

We are to obey His doctrine, and commandments forever.

Seeking salvation by works is not obeying His doctrine and commandments.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God.

Descriptive of unbelievers.

He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

Descriptive of believers.

again

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

JLB

More descriptive passages of scripture. 1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him/already saved) "demonstrative evidence" - if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, attend to carefully, watch over) His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep (guard, observe, attend to carefully, watch over) His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

[Danthemailman]

Yes, believe means obey.

He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
John 3:36

JLB

Wrong. Believing unto salvation means have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. (John 3:16; Acts 10:43; 16:31 etc..). Obedience which "follows" is works. I often hear works-salvationists quote John 3:36 in the NASB and "stress" the word "obey" to imply that we are saved "by" obedience/works. In regards to "does not obey the Son" in the New American Standard translation of the Bible, this does not mean that receiving eternal life is based on the merits of our works/obedience which "follows" believing in the Son, but obey by choosing to believe in the Son. If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. To obey the Son here is to choose to believe in the Son.

The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NIV says "rejects the Son" and the CSB says, "refuses to believe in the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is "apeitheo" and it means - "not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving." Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." In the context of 3:36, to "not obey the Son" means to reject the Son by refusing to believe in the Son.

 

[Neogaia777]

Yes. It is by the Spirit that we put to death the deeds of the flesh.



For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13





JLB

So "we" do it and it's not a work of God or the Holy Spirit...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Of course it can’t.

Furthermore, it’s a process.

Renewing the mind or restoring the soul is a process.

Transformation is a process.


Repent is immediate and involves a decision to turn to God in submission to Him as Lord.


When we turn to God, we are by default turning away from Satan as our lord and master, to Jesus as Lord.


We are transferred into His kingdom and by default, we are delivered out of the domain of darkness.

• He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, Colossians 1:13

We now have rights as citizens of the kingdom of God, whereby we exorcise our dominion over the sin that dwells in our flesh, as well as the enemy of our soul.

JLB

We need to be very patient (and cautious and careful) with each other and/or those still in process though, right...?

 

[Neogaia777]

Of course it can’t.

Furthermore, it’s a process.

Renewing the mind or restoring the soul is a process.

Transformation is a process.


Repent is immediate and involves a decision to turn to God in submission to Him as Lord.


When we turn to God, we are by default turning away from Satan as our lord and master, to Jesus as Lord.


We are transferred into His kingdom and by default, we are delivered out of the domain of darkness.

• He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, Colossians 1:13

We now have rights as citizens of the kingdom of God, whereby we exorcise our dominion over the sin that dwells in our flesh, as well as the enemy of our soul.

Who are you calling "Satan"...?

God Bless!

 

[JLB777]

So "we" do it and it's not a work of God or the Holy Spirit...?

God Bless!

I’m pretty sure that the scripture plainly says “if we”, “by the Spirit”, put to death the deeds of the flesh, we shall live.


The Spirit leading and us obeying.



JLB

 

[JLB777]

We need to be very patient (and cautious and careful) with each other and/or those still in process though, right...?

We are all still in the process.


Some need encouragement and some need correction.




JLB

 

[JLB777]

Obeying the truth in our walk with the Lord AFTER we obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel and becoming saved is a life long process and commitment. It's called ongoing sanctification, which is not to be confused with justification.

Being “saved through faith”, and receiving the salvation of our soul, on the Day of Judgement should not be confused.


In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:5-9

• receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls

JLB

 

[JLB777]

Wrong. Believing unto salvation means have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. (John 3:16; Acts 10:43; 16:31 etc..).

We receive faith from God by hearing Him.


It’s up to us to believe, obey, what He says.



Faith is a noun.

Believe is a verb.



JLB

 

[Danthemailman]

Being “saved through faith”, and receiving the salvation of our soul, on the Day of Judgement should not be confused.

In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:5-9

• receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls

JLB

There are 3 tenses to salvation that should not be confused:
1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification)
2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification)
3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)

From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works.

 

[Danthemailman]

We receive faith from God by hearing Him.

It’s up to us to believe, obey, what He says.

Faith is a noun.

Believe is a verb.

JLB

Faith does come by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Romans 10:17) Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe in Christ unto salvation and we will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18), saving belief in Christ is not exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us (John 6:44) and enables us (John 6:65), we would NEVER come to believe all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to believe in Christ, we must choose to believe in Him unto salvation. The impulse to faith in Christ comes from God.

The Greek words for "pistis" and "pisteuo" are two forms of the same word. "Pistis" is the noun form, "pisteuo" is the verb form. Nothing in the root meaning of either word carries any concept of works. If you believe in Christ for salvation, then you are trusting in Him alone (and not in works) to save you. (Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31) This belief results in actions appropriate to the belief (to one degree or the other/all genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful) - but the actions are NOT INHERENT in the belief. To believe in Christ unto salvation is to have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Obedience which "follows" having been saved through faith is works.

 

[ace of hearts]

Sorry but obeying the truth is a life long process.


Repent is an eternal commitment to submit to Jesus as Lord, forever.


We are to obey His doctrine, and commandments forever.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9



again




He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4




JLB

What are these commandments of Jesus 1 JN 2:4 talks about?

 

[Neogaia777]

I’m pretty sure that the scripture plainly says “if we”, “by the Spirit”, put to death the deeds of the flesh, we shall live.


The Spirit leading and us obeying.



JLB

Why don't we get the credit...? If "we" made the choice, and it was because of "us" and "our doing", ect...

Why don't we, or do we or don't we (get the credit)...? and why or why not...?

 

[Neogaia777]

We are all still in the process.

Some need encouragement and some need correction.

JLB

All of us, even including you...?