OSAS - I was wrong...again

[Abraham1st]

Unfortunately, everyone with a dogma claims they got it from the Holy Ghost, so why are so many dogmas are in contradiction?

Just the fact that you are trying to explain something from scripture means you're interpreting it - that's the definition of interpretation.

But if you can't agree with that, then don't respond, I'm not going to argue with you over words.

That's right you are not going to argue with me over words.

I am not trying to do your fact, so the fact remains you cant interpret scripture, interpretations belong to God.

It is the same as where we are told that all the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, soothsayers, could not show the secret to king Nebuchadnezzar, and Daniel tells as this is the scriptures for us all, that there is a God in heaven that reveals SECRETS, (SO THATS WHY THERE ARE MANY DOGMAS AS YOU ASSKERD, AND MANY FALSE INTERPRETERS.) and Daniel makes clear that the SECRET is not REVEALED to him for any wisdom he has THAN ANY LIVING, but for the sakes of the ones who make known the INTERPRETATION to the king.

So as I told you, you cant interpret, the scriptures are not of ANY PRIVATE INTERPRETATIN, as told in scripture, and as I repeated, did not try to explain.



Daniel 2:27 Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, The secret which the king hath demanded cannot the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, shew unto the king;
28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;
29 As for thee, O king, thy thoughts came into thy mind upon thy bed, what should come to pass hereafter: and he that revealeth secrets maketh known to thee what shall come to pass.
30 But as for me, this secret is not revealed to me for any wisdom that I have more than any living, but for their sakes that shall make known the interpretation to the king, and that thou mightest know the thoughts of thy heart.

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

[Abraham1st]

In John 6 and elsewhere it speaks of "never perish," "no one can take...," etc., 1 Pet. 1:5, Heb. 6:19, and many other places. Almost all the writers of the NT teach eternal security, and Heb. and 2 Pet. exhorts people to make certain of it. So your idea that it's only taught by Paul is erroneous.

I am sure you are able to look at the verses you are talking about, as I am able and see what happens, it is reads, that the Jews did not want to doubt, and wanted to be told so they were able to believe.

Jesus tells them how, THAT HE TOLD THEM. ( BUT THEY HAD NOT BELIEVED WHAT WAS TOLD.)

Jesus reminds us all what that was, that the works He does in HIs Fathers name BEAR WITNESS of Him.

Jesus tells them the only possible reason why they do not believe, because they must not hear His voice. ( BE HIS SHEEP/HEAR HIS VOICE AS HIS SHEEP HEAR HIS VOICE.)



John 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:



I will leave out the part you know well, about eternal life and not being plucked out of His hand by any man.

But I will continue where Jesus speaks to THESE SAME MEN EVEN AFTER HE SAYS THEY ARE NOT HIS SHEEP.

Appeals to them YET AGAIN, and this time tries to show them in reverse, that if He is NOT DOOING THE WORKS of HIs Father, to NOT BEIEVE HIM.

But if Jesus is doing those works of the Father, even if they still do not believe Him, (AS HE HAD JUST SAID TO THEM THEY DID NOT BELIEVE/BELIEVING IS TO BE HIS SHEEP BEIEVING IN HIM THE GOOD SHEPHERD.) to BELIEVE THE WORKS, that they MAY KNOW, and BELIEVE, that the Father is in Him, and He in Him.



John 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

 

[Abraham1st]

1 Pet. 1:5, Heb. 6:19, and many other places. Almost all the writers of the NT teach eternal security, and Heb. and 2 Pet. exhorts people to make certain of it.

I answered you with all that 1 Peter 1 says and with 2 Peter, here are some more.

What sort of answer are you giving to take nothing whatsoever from those passages, apart from your own dogma.

Here they are again, I know I must be interpreting, but one good thing, you said you wont be replying again if I did not agree with you, and I did not agree, did I.




Kept through faith, through the trail of your faith, though it is tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ, who we love, believing, rejoice with unspeakable joy, and full of glory. To receive the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.



1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.




THEN BE SOBER, AND HOPE TO THE END FOR THE GRACE TO BE BROUGHT TO US AT THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST.

AS OBEDIENT CHILDREN, NOT IN YOUR FORMER LUST IN YOUR IGNORANCE, BUT HE WHICH HAS CALLED YOU IS HOLY, SO BE YOU HOLY.

AND IF YOU CALL ON THE FATHER, HE JUDGES ACCORDING TO EVERY MANS WORK, WITH NO RESPECT OF EPRSONS, SO PASS YUR TME HERE IN FEAR.

YOU WERE REDEEMED WITH PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRISST, NOT CORRUPTIBLE THINGS, AS A LAMB WITHOUT SPOT OR BLEMISH.

SEEEING YOU HAVE PURIFIED YOUR SOULS IN OBEYING GHE TRUTH THROUGH THE SPIRIT, UNTO UNFEIGNED LOVE OF THE BROTHERS, SEE THAT YOU LOVE ONE ANOTHER WITH A PURE HEART FERVENTLY.

BEING BORN AGAIN NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SED, BUT OF INCORRUPTIBLE BY THE WORD OF GOD WHICH LIVES AND ABIDES FOREVER.




1 Peter 1:3 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.




That's right, you have quoted 2 Peter 1:10, as if you can privately interpret that as eternal security, when that is not what the chapter says afterwards, it says instead, that the day star has to arise in peoples hearts, as a light shining i a dark place, with illumination the scripture is correctly understood and not privately interpreted. I am sure you see all of that better now, especially as we went through what John 10 was saying, instead of not following the actual words spoken very carefully. ( AGAIN TO NOT PRIVATELY INTREPRET THEM.)



2 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

[tdidymas]

That's right you are not going to argue with me over words.

I am not trying to do your fact, so the fact remains you cant interpret scripture, interpretations belong to God.

It is the same as where we are told that all the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, soothsayers, could not show the secret to king Nebuchadnezzar, and Daniel tells as this is the scriptures for us all, that there is a God in heaven that reveals SECRETS, (SO THATS WHY THERE ARE MANY DOGMAS AS YOU ASSKERD, AND MANY FALSE INTERPRETERS.) and Daniel makes clear that the SECRET is not REVEALED to him for any wisdom he has THAN ANY LIVING, but for the sakes of the ones who make known the INTERPRETATION to the king.

So as I told you, you cant interpret, the scriptures are not of ANY PRIVATE INTERPRETATIN, as told in scripture, and as I repeated, did not try to explain.



Daniel 2:27 Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, The secret which the king hath demanded cannot the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, shew unto the king;
28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;
29 As for thee, O king, thy thoughts came into thy mind upon thy bed, what should come to pass hereafter: and he that revealeth secrets maketh known to thee what shall come to pass.
30 But as for me, this secret is not revealed to me for any wisdom that I have more than any living, but for their sakes that shall make known the interpretation to the king, and that thou mightest know the thoughts of thy heart.

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

You're doing "my fact" regardless of whether you try or not. Here is the clear example: you're applying 2 Pet. 1:20 wrongly, because you are misinterpreting it. Therefore, it is obvious to me that the Holy Spirit is NOT speaking to you.

I sincerely doubt you will pay any attention to what I say here, but I will poke an attempt at correcting you on the matter. When Peter says the scripture is not of a private interpretation, he is talking about the written words which are revelatory coming from whatever way God spoke to the prophet. In Heb. it says, "in times past, God spoke in many ways..." including dreams, visions, angelic appearances, etc. So when the prophets wrote the scripture, they were writing what they saw and heard, not what they "interpreted" with their fleshly minds.

The interpretation we do today is not the same thing. We are interpreting scripture after the fact, in order to understand what the original writer meant. Therefore, there are rules of interpretation that everyone must follow in order to get as close to that understanding as possible. If anyone does not follow those rules, then it's a free-for-all for any cult leader to claim that he's heard from the "Holy Spirit." Prooftexts from the Bible are a dime a dozen, and even the Devil himself uses that method.

But rather than pay attention to the context of the scripture as one of the rules of interpretation, you are inventing ideas as you read it out of your fleshly mind. So if you refuse to hear what I'm saying, then this conversation is over.

 

[Guojing]

In John 6 and elsewhere it speaks of "never perish," "no one can take...," etc., 1 Pet. 1:5, Heb. 6:19, and many other places. Almost all the writers of the NT teach eternal security, and Heb. and 2 Pet. exhorts people to make certain of it. So your idea that it's only taught by Paul is erroneous.

As you quoted from Peter himself in 1 Peter 1:7-9, salvation under the gospel of the kingdom is only given at the end, after Israel's faith is tested by fire.

So no, to Peter, he never taught OSAS.

 

[tdidymas]

As you quoted from Peter himself in 1 Peter 1:7-9, salvation under the gospel of the kingdom is only given at the end, after Israel's faith is tested by fire.

So no, to Peter, he never taught OSAS.

Your opinion, as you read your premise into the scripture. But the text clearly states "are kept by the power of God through faith," therefore who is in Christ are forever secure. So your response begs the question, are you still looking for a future redemption of your spirit, and have not yet obtained it?

 

[Guojing]

Your opinion, as you read your premise into the scripture. But the text clearly states "are kept by the power of God through faith," therefore who is in Christ are forever secure. So your response begs the question, are you still looking for a future redemption of your spirit, and have not yet obtained it?

1 Peter 1:6-9 is describing Daniel's 70th week.

Christ himself said you have to endure to the end before you can be saved (Matthew 24:13), and 1 Peter 1:9 is repeating the same point.

One can, if he choose to, take the mark of the beast before the end of the 7 years. That means he failed the test, and did not endure to the end, and hence will not be saved (Rev 14:9-10)

There is no point asking people to endure if one is "forever secure".

 

[tdidymas]

1 Peter 1:6-9 is describing Daniel's 70th week.

Christ himself said you have to endure to the end before you can be saved (Matthew 24:13), and 1 Peter 1:9 is repeating the same point.

One can, if he choose to, take the mark of the beast before the end of the 7 years. That means he failed the test, and did not endure to the end, and hence will not be saved (Rev 14:9-10)

There is no point asking people to endure if one is "forever secure".

You're wrong, but good luck with that anyway.

 

[Guojing]

You're wrong, but good luck with that anyway.

Are you saying that a believer can take the mark of the beast at the 70th week and still be saved?